"Hardcore Mil-Sim" Campaign Ideas

[Kerrik13]

Hi everyone,

Some like minded people in the airsoft community have been talking it over and there seems to be some serious interest in a very detailed, very harsh, very realistic set of rules for events.

Before I ask for ideas, I want to make it clear that this thread is not to be taken as a bash against any current event out there. Any airsoft game can be labeled as mil-sim, some more than others, and the judging factors are different for each player. This thread is also not intended to change any existing event out there, it is meant to come up with a new idea for a possible upcoming mil-sim campaign. For example, could Op Vig be considered mil-sim? Yes, it could. You have realistic armies battling in missions that could resemble real world objectives. But the event has more easy going rules and could be considered "mil-sim light" or more of an "action movie mil-sim". Games like Round Up, Breedland, Irene etc could be considered "more" or "higher" mil-sim.

Wolf Recon was recently involved in an event called the Railsplitter Challenge. Squad Hindenburg coordinated this challenge course and it was 2 days of the most grueling, hardcore, and realistic rules and training I've ever played in airsoft. It was extremely fun and it made me want to play with rules like this more often.

So this thread is a brainstorm stew of ideas that you guys, the local airsoft community, would like to see in a possible upcoming mil-sim airsoft campaign. Complexity and difficulty does not matter... for example, the Railsplitter challenge we just participated in involving numerous supplies for different types of first aid, running IVs, attaching tourniquets, stabilizing and physically dragging wounded, and calling in a 9-line radio call for a med-evac over the radio once you moved them to a suitable landing zone.... complex as all heck, but very very fun.

If you had a chance to throw out your 2 cents as to what you would like to see if someone put on a "very hardcore, very detailed, and very harsh realistic military simulation campaign"... what would it be?

[RedQueen]

Make Land Navigation not only a part of the game, but an integral and necessary part of the event.

I loved how you guys were using the topographical maps and calling in MEDEVAC using the grid coordinates at the RC. It gave me, as dispatch, a very real sense of where you were on the field, and it also gave the whole event an intense and realistic feel. I'd never done much with Land Nav until we were prepping for the RC and I really enjoyed it.(I think LZ is going to improve on his maps and get them more detailed, maybe 10-digit grid coordinates instead of 8)

As one of the people running to Kinko's at 10:30 Friday nite to print those damn maps off, I'm glad they were as fun and useful as they were!

BTW A hardcore MilSim idea is totally FTW... You guys had all the fun last weekend and I'm jealous. I wanna low-crawl through a foot of swamp water and knock open a 7lb can of pudding with a hammer and a chisel!

[grifyenov]

I've had a number of requests lately for a Freefall-like open-ended modern milsim. Battlefield Paintball in Osseo has been on me to do another airsoft series for them, now that the Nostromo series is no longer. I've been ruminating on how to combine hardcore milsim with freeform LARP at the Battlefield site, and here's what I've got so far:

- A single unit of US forces operates out of a forward operations base in a tribal area. This base must be established and held secure from 8am Saturday morning to 4pm Sunday afternoon rain or shine with NO breaks or possibility of reinforcement. The US forces are accompanied by a small squad of local military or police who speak the local language.

- The bulk of the tribe's village, a suspected staging area for insurgent raids, was recently destroyed by bombing. The objective is to apprehend or kill any remaining insurgents to complete the military phase of pacification of the village area. The bombing survivors are camped out in the heavily wooded ridges overlooking the valley in which the village stood.

- the tribe is made up of players who speak a language other than English, many of whom are likely to be insurgents or sympathizers. The US force, with their locall allies, will attempt to convince the surviving civilians to reveal or surrender the insurgents, while the insurgents will attempt to destroy or repel the US force.

- Friendly or uncooperative civilian NGOs may or may not move into or out of in the area as they attempt to minister to the survivors.

- No hi-caps except on squad support weapons. The local military unit has an elderly Soviet-made armored car, while the insurgents are known to possess exlosives and RPGs.

- All medical personnel, both US military and civilian NGO, are played by referee NPCs who rule on whether or not a player's wounds are severe enough to require medievac or to cause death. IF so, that player is OUT OF THE GAME and will be escorted off the field. NO reinsertion is possible after a player has been deemed incapacitated by fire (friendly or hostile,) accident or explosive. This means that if you get whacked three minutes into the sim, you agree to not only shut the H3LL up and leave, but also to not bitch about it afterwards. A side-game for the dead and evac-ed may be run if space allows, but it is critical that NO contact occur between those out of the game and those remaining in-game. This detail is at the very heart of the sim.

- Both the US commander and the insurgent leader will be required to make timely situation reports via radio or cellphone. Rules of engagement and mission objectives may be altered depending upon these reports or situations elsewhere. Otherwise, the events on the ground (and their consequences) will be determined entirely by the players themselves.

- Livestock, a US ground vehicle, and pyro are all possibilities, as is the local's need to complete a harvest. Any of these would greatly increase both the realism and the registration fee.

- After the game, the reports and AARs would be analyzed by a veteran military field commander and an effectiveness rating issued to the US force.

I'm thinking of calling the game "Crucible" or "Crucible Valley." I could run it twice a year at most and would have to cap the US force at around 40 players maximum.

Does this sound interesting to anyone? What would be a reasonable registration fee for such an event?

[spsnipa]

sounds alright, but I wouldn't be willing to pay for something that could possibly end in 3 minutes.... I understand the point of not being able to come back into the simulation, but I wouldn't put money down on something like that

[grifyenov]

See, to my mind at least, there is a difference between a sim and a game. Without a decent registration fee, I can't afford to organize a convincing sim. Without a serious chance that a player could be eliminated permanently, that player will not feel anything near the required level of simulated combat stress. Without the stress it is not a sim, it's just a game.

If all you guys want is a modern combat LARP game, that's totally cool, I can revive Nostromo and we can play with reinforcement respawns both days and half the night - just remember next time you're tempted to moan about how alla them organizers is too candy@ssed wit' the rules to run a SERIOUS milsim, I offered.

[spsnipa]

with a high registration cost, and a death system like that I can't see the turnout being to large

[DKruse]

grifyenov,

The only thing I don't like is that the medics are NGOs :P

[Kerrik13]

Sometimes the smaller games are more fun... especially when it comes to a hard-core sim like this one.

For the Railsplitter challenge, we had ridiculously difficult medic and evac rules. Dying sucked and took you out for a LONG time. We were genuinely afraid of combat because we knew how it could turn out, but hesitation caused us more wounds and casualties in the end. And the mentality of "its ok, I'll just respawn" went right out the window as we physically dragged casualty players throuh muck, mud, and standing water to extraction LZs.

We had at most 18 people on the "military" side going through the scenarios and about 3-4 OpFor. So... maybe 16-24 people tops. It was some of the funnest airsoft scenarios I've ever played... the quality far surpassed the quantity.

[grifyenov]

Small would be fine with me - it's more managable. Hardcore sims aren't for everyone - there's Scandinavian group that ran a two-week-long detention camp sim as a social experiment, and some of the participants broke down.

I doubt we'd draw a big turnout the first couple of years anyway, although established hardcore scenario sims like Irene do all right. The real trick for a hardcore milsim LARP would be getting the civilians, not the airsofters. Ideally, the US forces should be outnumbered by non-English speakers by at least two or three to one, so we're looking at recruiting twenty-four to thirty-six locals for a squad of 12 US soldiers. Armsdealer suggested a possible source for civvies and insurgents I need to investigate. It's entirely possible that this sort of sim just isn't economically viable in the US, where this sort of thing is not government subsidized except for active-duty military and some law enforcement agencies.

How did the Railsplitter Challenge rules work? Were the medics and docs NPCs? Were there any civilians in the game? What did it cost?

[Kerrik13]

The railsplitter was free (it was a private training course hosted at my aunt and uncle's land in Rock Springs but coordinated by Squad Hindenburg) and it had no civilians except for a guard duty scenario at night. The medics were players but they had very strict rules on treating people; so much so that each part of the body had a different kind of treatment and stabilization. Every BB hit was bad because there was no "healing" in the game... just stabilizing wounded or dying. If we called in a cas-evac, the wounded players could be rotated out and come in as fresh troops (kind of like an on field respawn) but they were difficult.

One scenario consisted of our squad moving to a spot on the map to check in with a recon patrol. Their radio went dark. We were to check on them, help if needed, resupply or destroy their equipment as needed, and if we had casualties we only had one cas-evac site. It was nerve racking... moving to the location knowing the OpFor could be anywhere. We got hit, had a hell of a fire fight, and the OpFor left... but my medic was shot in the chest and had to be carried in a dragging litter carrier, I had a shot to the right arm and a tourniquet (will not bleed out but can't use that arm), we had 2 more arm hits in the squad, and both of the recon soldiers were injured (one was a dummy that needed to be carried and the other was a player with a wounded leg). The remaining able bodied players gave us a perimeter as we consolidated the wounded and dragged the 2 wounded who could not walk. It took us forever and was exhausting, especially lifting a player up off the ground with a casualty litter and wading through 10 inches of murky water for 50 feet. In the end, we managed to get everyone to the LZ and secure it and get out of the area, ending the scenario. A scenario that could be 10-15 minutes in a game like Op Vig "Move to point X and help a recon team get back to base" turned into a several hour ordeal. And it was some of the most fun I've had airsofting.

The general airsoft public, and even some teams that claim to be mil-sim, really are NOT ready for this kind of simulation. This is not a knock at any particular group and doesn't apply to just Wisconsin airsoft, but it is true. A majority of players would have a problem with complex rules, harsh death penalties, increased hardship and difficulty, and decreased guarantee of combat. But I still think there is a small group of people out there that would be interested in this kind of thing.

I know it is really short notice, but this weekend in Merrimac we will be running some of our hardcore mil-sim rules and scenarios. I want to test out some ideas before moving to something like Apoc. If anyone is interest in giving it a try, PM me and I'll send you the address and material.

[Rekkon]

I would be all for a very strict milsim event, though given my distance from Wisconsin, I could not guarantee my participation. I love the harsh respawn penalty for Freefall. It makes you think twice about solving your problems with violence, thereby giving more incentive for roleplaying. I like Gryphon’s ideas, though frankly since I would have to drive so far to attend, I would be hesitant about attending a game with permanent elimination. Long return times (hours), fine. Even if I had to switch teams and/or be given a strict NPC role, I would be fine with that.

[Peally]

Games like Kerrick describes are why I took up the hobby of airsoft in the first place. I look forward to what you guys can come up with. Peally has no money to travel to Irene every year, but Peally still wants to wade through mud and pull a hammy so he doesn't have to work for a week ;). The more "intense" and physically demanding, the more I'd feel I'd get my money's worth and the 5 hour round trip. TFD's events are fun as hell and I look forward to them every year as my milsim fix, but I feel this would fill a much needed niche. Of course, the only thing that bothers me is paying 60 bucks to die 3 minutes in. Aside from feeling like an ass for getting shot (which I often do), I'd rather pay 10 dollar respawns after the arduous med-evacs and not sit around the camp fire the rest of the day. I also like the idea of some basic land navigation. Apoc is fun for heavy combat, but I'd be extremely interested in the chance of getting lost in the hills on patrol with the possibility of a firefight with every road or field security and crossing.

In any case, drop a line if you need a test dummy :)

My 2 sleep deprived cents.

[Kerrik13]

We tested out a scenario this weekend and it was a huge success. I am going to be kicking this thing off soon, so keep an eye out to the boards if you are interested... this campaign will be invite only and will require some commitment but it will be a lot of fun.

The pre-game info/briefing...

The game will be based off of a military force VS an OpFor (opposing force). The OpFor will play differently than the military force and have their own rules/respawns; they are tools to make the scenario run for the military force. If you are interested in playing OpFor (hint hint, Dire Wolves?) PM me.

All players in the military force are encouraged to wear a tan based (Multicam, DCU, all tan, etc) or ACU uniform, but I will not be too picky this time around. OpFor will be wearing either a mismatched, dark green rebel, or insurgent look.

Attached is the full ruleset for review, but I'll paraphrase it... we're also modifying some parts of it, but to get a gist of what we are going for, give it a quick read. We'll be toying with some of the rules because I am still fine tuning our rule set for a realistic military simulation game.

BASIC RULES
- No hi-caps at all unless using a support weapon (SAW)
- No refilling magazines unless at a specified ammo location
- Strict medic rules for healing players. Everyone can heal the first hit by wrapping an ACE BANDAGE on a limb, but further wounds a combat medic must tend to.
- Strict death and reinsertion rules. Long waits between respawns or cas-evac procedures depending on the scenario, and some scenarios have no respawns.
- Armor (plater carriers, bullet proof vests, flak vests, etc) and helmets help you survive wounds. shots to those locations are automatically flesh wounds and you can crawl when wounded.

SCENARIO
Your squad is moving deep into enemy territory to pave the way for a larger assault force. There are 2 confirmed missile defense systems in this area that must be destroyed. Without these AA systems, reinforcements cannot move into the area quickly and any chance of a momentous assault will be stalled. Your squad will be transported by civilian vehicle to your FOB point, but a supply route or larger force will be too noticeable.

TIMELINE
- You have no time limit for when this objective must be complete. Judging by recon intel, the guard rotations are fairly relaxed; this is not a combat zone and they should not be expecting an attack.
- Because you are in enemy territory, if combat breaks out or alarms are sounded, the enemy could call for reinforcements. There is no intel as to how long it will take for enemy numbers to increase. You are advised to hit the target as soon as possible once combat breaks out.

MISSION OBJECTIVE
- Establish an FOB point near the civilian barn structure. You cannot cross the driveway during this scenario.
- Place explosives on the SAM sites and confirm their destruction.
- Once complete, return to your FOB point and call for extraction.
- If forced to retreat, defend the FOB point and call for extraction.

OPFOR
- Light guard rotations and patrols. Standard infantry or militia. No enemy armor or fire support anticipated.
- Chance of reinforcements if alarm is raised due to being in enemy territory, but significant time is anticipated before they arrive.

SPECIAL RULES
- You are moving in with limited supplies; whatever you carry is what you've got. There will be no additional supplies other than what is on you and what you carry to your FOB.
- You are operating close to AA defenses, so there will be no cas-evac helos available to you. You must collect your casualties back at your FOB. A QRF recon team will be on standby to assist you if you take too many casualties; This "4 man team" is to represent a small respawn of 4 players. Other than that, there is no respawn in this scenario.

The end of the game info... (sorry for the name references, this was on our private forums so we know who each other are)

It started out with some hefty planning; everyone in the Spec Ops team made some hard choices about the gear they were going to take. With no cas-evac, the body armor would be crucial. With no resupply, extra ammo would be crucial. With being in enemy territory and outnumbered, speed and mobility would be crucial. The team did a good job discussing it amongst themselves and coming up with a plan. The team was consisted of 4 players (Brandon, Justin, ArchEnemy, and HopAlong) and then was supplemented by Immolation, Doomtrooper, and Doom's brother in law. Doom and his brother in law ended up leaving fairly early so they didn't get to play much. Richard and I were playing as OpFor.

The first part was to load into my van and drive down to the end of the driveway and exfil into the mission. Richard was playing an NPC driver to get them there and the players didn't know I was waiting there for them. I stopped the van at gunpoint and made Richard get out. He tried to stall and I pushed him around, demanding papers. When Richard went to the ground and I had him at gunpoint, I was grabbed from behind and stabbed with a rubber knife. It was awesome. The team then looted my body of ammo, dragged me off into the weeds, and setup their FOB.

Next was the patrols and we (OpFor) ended up walking into the Spec Ops team pretty early. A small firefight broke out and more guards were alerted. The firefight got fairly intense and then the OpFor officially called for reinforcements. The firefight moved from the bloody tree to the sniper roost, the Spec Ops team taking a few hits but still good to go. A handful of guards were taken down but the defense was solid on the AA site. When Doomtrooper and his brother in law left, we decided to role play it that one Spec Ops member was too wounded to continue so another wounded soldier took him back to the FOB to guard. So we have 2 imaginary Spec Ops member back at the barn/FOB.

Next, the Spec Ops team backed off and vanished, so the OpFor setup patrols. One guard back at the AA site and one guard wandering. Richard and I took turns patrolling, and the Spec Ops team kept to the thick woods and moved around.. all while watching our patrols and learning the route. While out on patrol, Richard moved past a bush and was killed, because the bush gave birth to an angry knife wielding Justin. When his patrol didn't come back, I started to look for him and then was taken out by accurate sniper fire. The AA turrets were open and Immo, Hop, and Arch all went to setup the C4 and fire crackers.

As the C4 exploded and the SAM sites destroyed, the reinforcements arrived for the Russians. The Spec Ops team radioed in immediately for extraction and command began to scramble for another vehicle. Richard and I then pursued the team and a crazy covering retreat took place all the way from the front yard, around the rock wall, around the pond, and to the barn. We doggedly pursued and shot at their heels as they fled, but the Spec Ops team kept watching their six, wait for us to step into their guns, take one of us down, then keep moving. It was damn impressive.

Once back at the FOB, they called in for an ETA and command said it would take time... another 30-45 minutes. At this time an entire platoon of Russians were hot on the Spec Ops and they were in danger of being overrun. After slowing us down a bit, the Spec Ops team vanished and moved to the secondary exit point with their wounded... leaving on foot deeper into Russian territory. This was an emergency exfil if the pickup point was too hot... it basically meant they were going to disappear into the woods and try to find their own ride home or another route.

After calling it in that they were hoofing it, command confirmed one more recon element in pursuit. With wounded, the Spec Ops team was slow and could not end the mission until this team was killed. Richard and I caught up with them and had a nice firefight in the woods, but we ended up getting tagged. The Spec Ops team finished us off and moved out, ending the mission.

It was IMMENSE fun and playing OpFor was a blast. Sometimes we played bored guards, sometimes we played alert soldiers, and sometimes we played pissed off assaulting reinforcements. We didn't play retarded, we tried to play real. I think it worked well because the Spec Ops team destroyed us and did a fantastic job.

MISSION OUTCOME
Specter-6 (spec ops team) inserted into the AO, dodged patrols, minimized contact when possible, and destroyed the AA defenses. They failed to link up with their extraction vehicle and moved via foot deeper into enemy territory to evade being overrun.

STATS
Specter-6 (7 man Spec Ops Team)
- 3 flesh wounds
- 1 ambulatory casualty (unable to walk)
- 0 fatalities
- Overall 75% ammunition remaining

Russian Guards/Soldiers
- Estimated 15-20 casualties
- Estimated 12-16 fatalities

I was very happy with how this played out and Specter-6's mission will officially kick off this campaign. I'll start a new thread for this and have links to maps where the missions will take place. There will be a future scenario to see what happens to Specter-6 since they did not make it back to friendly forces. Also, with the AA turrets down, the Ukrainian and US forces have moved in reinforcements and supplies via aircraft to the Ukrainian front line.

[Irishman]

with a high registration cost, and a death system like that I can't see the turnout being to large

Also, with this "death system", it would cause people to cheat like non-other.

[Peally]

And with Kerrick's AAR I am officially psyched ;). Very much looking forward to the results of your labors.

[Ship_Go_Boom]

VERY cool. I'd be up for a game like that. I especially like how the playing style seems to have gone straight through traditional MilSim and come out the other side as an extremely intense LARP.

[HopAlong23]

I'd like to add that the test game was one of the most fun milsims I have ever done. As for Specter6, comms was an integral part of our squad. Diehard is a great CO. Also, since there was no reloading, we brought eight extra midcaps in Arch's 3day assault backpack.

I loved how this was not at all about racking up kills, or getting a good KDR, but completing the objective. The whole "Every man comes home" mentality added well to the milsim. It was a mantra that went some of the way to getting rid of the whole "Oh, I'll just respawn and come back" mentality. I also liked how there weren't any respawns. That forces you to play more conservatively, and adds to reluctance to engage.

My only concern was the obvious limited OpFor numbers, though you did well to play a formidable force for two soldiers. And as for sniper fire, we were all using M4s.

Also, maybe for kicks you could add a little paper "control box" to the bottom or side of the sam launchers. The C4 would be placed inside of it and then it would actually destroy something. Special effects are always nice :D.

[RedQueen]

I have to put my two-cents in on this-

I love that the Railsplitter Challenge has spawned the kind of conversations I'm seeing here. I love that teams that I enjoy playing with are also on the same page as we are in terms of serious MilSim. I can't wait to play in these:)

There is at least one misconception here, however, that I feel I need to clarify. Getting hit did not mean you die and could never come back into the game. The RC was broken into several scenarios. Everyone got to play in each scenario, and if you were hit and successfully MEDEVACed, then you respawned on field as a new soldier. If you were not successfully MEDEVACed and you bled out, then you went back to camp and waited 15 minutes to rejoin the scenario. In most cases, the squad was able to MEDEVAC their men and they really tried hard to do so, because in terms of time 'treatment+MEDEVAC= about 10 minutes and back on field', versus '5-minutes-to-camp+15-minutes-to-respawn+5-minutes-to-walk-back-to-squad=25 minutes and back on field'. You got fresh troops faster if you MEDEVACed them.

If the event is as prop-and-rules-and-whatnot-heavy as the RC was and held at APOC or another large field then a registration cost should be expected. And the ratio of OC's to players should be a little greater than that of a normal game, simply due to any rules questions/clarifications that may come up during play.

Kerrick, you rock for getting this ball rolling! Just you wait until the Railsplitter next year, young man:P

Just my opinion, and me sending down little rays of joy and sunshine. We continue now with our regularly scheduled programming. LOL!

[HopAlong23]

I also think that this series should be more frequent than once a year.

[Jun Wen]

Some of my favorite airsoft memories have been around events where we had to use our heads to survive rather than rack up the kill counts. The very first Fallen Angel comes to the forefront of my mind. I can't say that I remember the respawn rules for the Omega team, but it was the first game where we were required to carry in everything we needed onto the field and were not allowed to go to the safe zone at all during the event. On top of that, having three distinctly different factions allowed us to use negotiations rather than brute force to meet our objectives. I recall bringing in two AEGs (each using different magazines) plus a couple sidearms just in case things went bad. Instead, I did not even have to fire more than one or two magazines and still had a fantastic time. Then again, it's always a bit more fun when you meet all your objectives.

This kind of event definitely sounds interesting and if the schedule allows, I'd like to be a part of it.

[Kerrik13]

I've been having some great brainstorming sessions with some interested parties lately... once I get done with the GenCon / CodeName Thunder / Op Vig / Wedding / Honeymoon craziness then I might be able to toy around with this a bit more.

If I do get this off the ground with some other interest teams/parties, one thing for sure is that it will be invite only. You'd pretty much have to sign up and get approved to be able to participate, just because the level of game is not your typical game. Players who are not in the right mindset will bog down or ruin the scenarios altogether. We might even do a "Campaign Boot Camp" that new players to the scenario must pass before being allowed into the campaign. Some people might complain about this and think it is stupid... but this type of game and scenario needs the players that look at a requirement like this as a way to weed out players who would bring the game down.

I'll keep updating this thread as I continue along with major breakthroughs and brainstorms, but it really seems like there really is some serious interest in this... keep the ideas flowing, if you have anything to add. I'm a big advocate of the brainstorm stew. :)

[RedQueen]

I'm a big advocate of the brainstorm stew. -Kerrik

Mmmmmmm.... brain stew..... Oh wait, OpPlague isn't until October.....

[woogie_man]

This all sounds like another great reason to come back to the Wisconsin area for more games. :D

I like the idea of a large game like that of Breedland, but with like 10x the area to play at. Would be awesome to find an old town or something that isn't used and has been forgot about. That way you can have the long march to the field, as well as some CQB areas.

I like the idea of once you are dead you are dead..... but instead of being out of the game, you can come back but depending on what role you are playing it will take more time..

Rifleman - 15 min
Heavy weapon - 25 min
Medic - 30 min
Sniper - 30 min
Commander - 60 min
Special Role, such as spy or something like that - 90 min

Using something like this you will work harder at not getting shot and thinking about what you are about to do. That and keep a medic or a sniper from running right to the front line.

[rsteele]

I have been reading through all the post and I am loving the ideas out there. Here is one that I think needs to be look at more is night ops. When I went to Freefall and they night ops till mid-night it was wild. In the day light you can see where enemy fire is coming from. But, at night you had no clue where it was coming from and it got crazy. That was lots of fun. I would like to see mor night stuff happening. I see day games all over the place but, night or a 24 hour game would be great.

[woogie_man]

It would be fun for a game to start at say 1600 on a friday and end at 1600 on sunday. ;) Go straight through the night and day. Have people eat, and sleep on the filed. These areas will alow no firing of course, but other people can try and gather intel at the other teams base.

Another one would be to have a huge field. Something where it would be needed to use a vehicle to get across. But if you wanted to cross on foot it would take some time and require you to stay hidden. Lots of possibilities there :D

[Jun Wen]

Maybe the culture of airsoft changed in the past decade. I recall playing a full overnight game at Apoc in the days before the castle that was scheduled to run from dusk until dawn. Players who arrived set up safe area in their respective bases where they could sleep in their tents, goggle free. The big issue was that nobody really wanted to sleep in shifts. Everyone was gung-ho to play at the start and by 2AM or so, everyone was ready to go to bed. It didn't help that there was a steady rain with some rare cracks of lightning. Goggle fogging was ever-present and it was near impossible to tell if you were hit or not at long range with the rain coming down. Powerful flashlights were nice to have, but only to guide your way back to camp. Using it in combat ended up suddenly leaving everyone without their natural night-vision, even the one to trigger the light. So yeah... 2 AM was a good time to pack it in and try to rest. I'd feel bad if there were actually some players who slept the first shift and woke up to no field time.

I guess the question is how many of you are willing to put up with that situation and go all night to play for a full day in wet BDUs with a lousy night's rest? It definitely builds a greater appreciation for our men and women in service, but it's not exactly an event I'd like to re-live. Maybe I'm not cut out for it anymore. Haha.

[rsteele]

I can see where the rain can be a downer for the event Jun Wen. I do reanacting for american revalution and out east they get some pretty seraous event going rain or shin. It would have to be made clear what game rules are for a night game. It still can be fun but, I see a command team needs to be in place for both sides to be able to make shure everyone gets down time and game play. With the understanding it would be base on weather. It is not fun taking to the field in wet gear. As far as people not sleeping when they should that is their chose. I am a believer that you get sleep when you can. Because you never know when you may get it. I have learn if the weather may call for rain bring achange of clothes if you do not like playing in wet ones. But, in the end it is up the person weather to try a game like that or not. I tell people "If you do not try it once how do you know if you like it.".

We call these game "mil-sims" the hard part is how far to take it. I know of an event out in New York or Pennsilvana that takes place in world war one. They go as far as digging trenches and turning the fields in to mud to get a better feel for what realy happened on the French front. I know this is not renacting but, it sure looks like to me in some of the events that I read about. The only differnce is that these events we are making up with the inttation of useing real tactes. I still would do an all night game rain or shine. Would I be a a happy person the next day in wet gear? No. But, I would still have fun. I think I am a little crazy that way.

[Peally]

No fun going to the field wet? I'm an expert! I've blown up so many hydration bladders that I've literally got more games under my belt with a soaked ass and legs than without :D.

[DKruse]

Yeah, really. Rain makes for fun. Anyone who went to Whiskey Hotel will tell you icy mud, rain/sleet is the best mix for an airsoft game. We start with 600+, we ended with like 200 I think? It was a lot lower anyway, and it goes to prove that the whether can weed out certain groups of people, maybe not necessarily "non mil-simers" but those that don't want their gear a bit dirty at least.

[woogie_man]

I agree.... if you want a mil-sim game, then you need to have a straight through game. Would be great to see a game that will last a few days. And land nav would be great.

Make the game a 4 or 5 day game... that way you would be forced to go to sleep at some point ;)

[rsteele]

4-5 day game? I do not think anyone has that kind of free time for it. I can see three days of game with check in starting say on Friday evening and ending on Monday moring or afternoon.

[woogie_man]

4-5 is to much ?!?!

I am trying to talk my wife into letting me go over to a buddies place over in Finland, then take a fairy to the near by game. Ever heard of Burget? If I remember correct, it is a 1 or 2 week game. 24 hours a day, you do everything in the field like you would normally do.

But yeah would be nice to do something like that around here though... Check in on friday and don't finish untill monday night. Play straight through and keep the game going.

[rsteele]

If you have the time and the money to do it that is good.

[KRICHEN922]

I do civil war reenacting and there has been several times where we're sleeping out under the stars and get rained on. Since we're using powder we have to make sure that we keep it dry. The muskets rust up fast, and I usually stand mine up with the bayonnet in the ground to keep water out of the barrel.

Anyways, with tents it would be easier to control that sort of thing but due to the fact thatif its POURING out the BBs will get knocked down pretty fast. So I wouldn't go out for that. But if it doesn't rain, then it'd be fine and an all nighter wouldn't be so bad

[Kerrik13]

Hey everyone,

It has been a while since I have updated this thread.

I've been creating this rule set for about 3 years now and I think I am finally (close to being) done. I am building a database of interested players with contact information so we can send out invites and messages related to the rules and the campaign I am building.

I'm running a realistic campaign that utilizes these rules and involves an offshoot story in the Vigilance setting. If anyone is interested in this (it will be invite only) please PM me your name and email so I can add you to the list and sent updates.

[rsteele]

Hey everyone,

It has been a while since I have updated this thread.

I've been creating this rule set for about 3 years now and I think I am finally (close to being) done. I am building a database of interested players with contact information so we can send out invites and messages related to the rules and the campaign I am building.

I'm running a realistic campaign that utilizes these rules and involves an offshoot story in the Vigilance setting. If anyone is interested in this (it will be invite only) please PM me your name and email so I can add you to the list and sent updates.

You are a game machine. I can not wait for it.

[KRICHEN922]

There hasn't been much discussion on this recently and I just wanted to put out there that we could possibly ask around the area (farmers with land that they don't use, possibly govment land of some sort) for finding a new airsoft field we can play on. It seems that the scale of some of the events people have envisioned requires a field larger than we currently have. I know of many civil war reenactments that take place on public or private property, and I believe since there are actual firearms, horses, and large arms it is necessarilly much harder to cover the insurance aspect of things. If people who aren't big shots by any means obtain a field for use with real weapons that are actually firing, why does everyone in the airsoft community view this as an impossibility for airsoft?
If such a field is found and the players behave themselves in the eyes of the people who let them play, another person has had a positive experience with airsoft players (who I understand will be Invited players) and will be more accepting of the hobby in the future.

Now I may be entirely wrong on a few of the legal issues but this Is just a random thought I had. In the reenacting world, at least, it is very common to set up an immersion event in the manner I've described, and I wonder why airsoft can't do the same. Now I'm probably ignorant on a lot of things but I just wanted to put an argument out there as to how we might meet the size requirments that some of these events need.
Krich

[Kerrik13]

The 2011 season is kicking off and we have some private mil-sim campaign events coming up soon.

The registered player base is up to 100 players with 75 of them actively in a Facebook group to track the campaign. We playtested and tweaked the rules by playing at a private field in Merrimac (small scale) a large 80 acre stretch of land in Rock Springs, WI (large scale) and then an event at Apoc Paintball. The rules have been tweaked (up to only 14 pages, haha) and we're ready to begin the 2011 season.

If you are interested in this kind of a game and would like to ask about being invited in, please send me a PM with your contact info and any questions you might have.