AAR: 4/27 Bounty Hunter Wars III @WGR

[seppuku]

Turned out to be great weather for airsofting. I took an Aleve. More [coherent] thoughts later...

[Specter]

I was surprised at the weather today. No rain, which was a good thing, but the time I spent water-proofing my gun was wasted. Oh well.

Overall it was a good day. Met some interesting people, and even won something pretty in the end.

There were some complaints, and such. Things that could've used some tweaking. Otherwise it was worth the $20.

[Shifty]

TFSH ARR

So the day started off a bit slow for us. having tried to take the biker gang and having one of our own guys shoot the leader in the head. Buy mid day we were down a lot (I don't know exactly what our score was) so after lunch we regrouped and headed out. The after noon proved to be better then the morning capturing the sniper and successfully bringing him back we started getting points.

Having sneaked around to the back of town two we engaged the Russian mafia and in a brief firefight captured him with no hits, getting him back was a different story. We changed our rout of escape 3 times and took one hit (Me) from the ambushing team ICE but we were able to make it to the hotel safely.

Our next venture didn't go so well but it was a lot of fun. Leaving the main battles and fire fights we set up an ambush along the drainage ditch. Having seen several teams go that way with there bounties it seamed like the smart thing to do. It seams that no one was using that way any more because of the water so we tried sneaking up on the biker gang again to no avail. The last bounty we took was the mountain man and ended up I believe in 6th place, Gary please correct me if I am wrong.

The day ended in a high note for us so until next time
Tfish out.

[Jun Wen]

...nothing more? This was the first Bounty Hunter Wars the Triads weren't a part of. We're curious on what we missed.

[Specter]

Even if The Triads were a Bounty, I doubt they would have been captured much. The team I was placed on (Echo) didn't capture anyone but the Mountain Man. The Bounties with bodyguards usually held everyone off pretty well, and the Russians I think it was, were never captured.
We were shot up by other teams more than the Bounties shot us. It was hectic at times, and very muddy, but it was good fun.
It usually always highly populated with other Bounty Hunters around the Fort 1 area.

At least the first half of the game for Echo we were in the woods, trying to capture the Mafia Boss (I believe), with no success. Eventually we regened at Fort 1, where we ran into the Mountain Man, successfully capturing and returning him to the Bail Bonds.
After a while we decided to go after the Russian Connection (I think), who was holed up somewhere at the other end of the open field. We had little success getting near him as well.
Eventually the game ended, and so on and so forth.

I do have to give kudos to the other four members of Echo team, for any inconvinences I may have caused seeing as this was only my second game.
So, kudos to Echo team.

Anybody from Echo team, feel free to add on or correct any details as they see fit.

:)

[Jun Wen]

One of the critical things that I went over with the Triads was that it was my job to be captured. The game would be pointless if we fought our hardest every time. We were just to make a show of defense, but not really be good at it. I know Mr. Crow told the fugitives the same thing last year, at least. However, if we knew one team was doing too well, we'd put up a better fight to challenge them.

How many teams were there? How was the ratio of bounties to teams?

[Maple]

One of the critical things that I went over with the Triads was that it was my job to be captured. The game would be pointless if we fought our hardest every time. We were just to make a show of defense, but not really be good at it. I know Mr. Crow told the fugitives the same thing last year, at least. However, if we knew one team was doing too well, though, we'd put up a better fight to challenge them.

How many teams were there? How was the ratio of bounties to teams?

I did the same thing as Dick Spangler. I was there to get captured, not easily, but at the same time, I wouldn't put up a super hard fight. Hell, a couple of times I got caught because I was reading a nude-y magazine (part of the role) and wasn't paying attention. On the flip side, every time Team Blackwater came looking for me, I would make them chase me down.

[666cowboy]

Jun Wen- The same three of us that played the Italian mob last year played the Russian mob in town two again. Although I chose a black suit instead of the blue one. It was a sweet day of shooting. Lots of battles. I would say in most cases the teams fought against each other more than attacking the bounties and we simply shot at who ever got closest. All and all a great day.

[Jun Wen]

666cowboy - After last year my friends and I had some fun ideas of turf wars and whatnot between the mafia to pass the time and give the hunters something amusing to watch. Hopefully I can see that famous Hi-Capa rig you've made someday.

[seppuku]

OK, I'll take a stab at posting a more intelligent [and semi-objective] review now (I'm a little burnt out today, so please excuse the lack of polish)....

The biggest "issue" with the game was the shear number of bounty hunter teams roaming the field. While a testament to the number of new players entering airsoft, it was challenging going anywhere on the field without running into another [typically hostile] group of hunters. I think there was a total of 5 bounties (plus bodyguards) and upwards of 12-13 hunter teams of 4-6 players each. To make things even more crowded, the outer portions of the field were under 6+ inches of water, making certain areas less accessible (or at least desirable).

Speaking of the landscape, the thick foliage in the areas around bunkers 4 and 6 (where our team spent the first half of the day) hasn't grown in yet, making surprise attacks on the bounties significantly more challenging. The tall grass also hasn't grown in yet on the main bunker field, which I don't think is much of an issue given the large number of bunkers populating it. While I don't think this time of year provides the ideal environment for this type of game, niggles like that were overshadowed by the over-abundance of bail-seekers.

My hat goes off to most of the fugitives and their accomplices though. Almost all of them at least tried to look the part (some "costumes" were especially good), and I even caught glimpses of them enacting their role. We only had limited engagements with a few of the fugitives, so I'm not sure how "little" they were trying to not get captured. Our rag-tag team of 5 was able to quickly move in on Vassil Romaloff (Dover I think) at bunker 6, but capturing him took a heavy toll, and us remaining chaps fell quickly to the hyenas waiting in the brush.

In fact, we didn't have any opportunities to engage the bounties without having one or more other teams coming at us, so eventually we decided to just engage anyone and everyone. I think the bounty hunters that did the best either teamed up with another group, or were an organized group of individuals who have played together in the past....or maybe we were always just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

As reluctant "leader" of Almost-Echo, I was probably the weakest link and the reason for our large death deficit. However, I had a great time playing with some new faces (I think you and Austin did fine jobs, Tim) and reconnecting with some old ones (Maus, Doc). The game wasn't exactly what I was expecting (and I don't know if I got a good feel for the bounty hunting experience), but it was still nice to leave the confines of my garage and get outside to share some plastic (the first time in 6+ months). :)


What I'd like to see for next time (a Summary of sorts):

Less people. ;)...or maybe bigger teams? More bounties? Something to make the game seem less crowded....
Later in the season - thicker foliage and hopefully less standing water/mud (= more field?); greater probability of good (i.e. warm/gas gun) weather.
The same great fugitive role-playing.
More bounty hunter role-playing.
The triumphant return of the Triad. :ph34r:
The triumphant return of Dick Spangler. :reading:


If I think of more later, I'll post it....

[BadgerAirsoft]

Nicely put. I played both last year and this year in Bounty Hunters and I found last Sunday to be much too crowded. With more than two teams per bounty it was chaos on the field. I think next year there should be a limit on the amount of teams able to attend. And I know ours wasn't the only team to say screw it and spend the majority of the day engaging in any and all firefights we could find because capturing a bounty was near impossible. It turned into a game where whoever was the closest to the hotel stole the bounty and ran with it.

[Jun Wen]

The previous two years had issues with "vulture" teams setting up camp near the hotel. The ratio of teams to bounties probably exacerbated the problem. While it's great to know that the concept still got a lot of interest, I'd support a team limit as well. If I can sort out my summer weekend schedule, I'd like to run a similar event. My friends, though, have been somewhat hesitant to pay $20 and up to play sitting ducks for a day. Can't say I'd disagree, either.

[Dover]

Actually having played both years, I thought both games were just as exciting. There were no more teams this year than I can remember last year. I think there was alot of competition between the teams and they spent more time shooting at each other than collecting the bounties. Having been the Italian mob boss last Sunday, I can say the teams were less organized. There was some confussion on many peoples part because they either didn't read the rules on the forum the night before, or were talking during the breifing before the game. I was captured 5 times but never made it to the bail bonds because I was shot in the head numerous times.

During the AAR at the field, no one mentioned any suggestions or concerns about the game. If nothing is said during the AAR on the field, it makes it hard to tweak the game to everyones liking. In the future, speak up rather than complain a week later on the forum when nothing can be done.

Thanks to everyone that attended. I hope you have as good a time as I did.

Jun, where else can you play AS for $20 or less?

[Jun Wen]

That's what I mean, though. We're not the ones playing. We're facilitating the game concept as our characters. I made my concerns clear regarding the environment (excessive mud and lack of concealment) in the original announcement thread stated the reasons why my friends and I really did not have that good of a time the last year compared to the first year. The fact that we paid the same amount of money to sit there and get shot at as people who were actively playing as hunters just doesn't entirely sit well the more that I think about it. Now if I were at the game playing as a bounty hunter, then I'd have no problem paying the listed fee.

I can understand why nobody speaks up right after games. It's not easy to raise your hand and say that you had issues with a particular player or that it the game did not live up to expectations. Some people would rather post quietly on a board than cause a stir on the field. What's the difference if we have an AAR here versus on the field after a game? Either way it allows the organizer to make considerations for the future event.

[Cleric]

I had a great time being a fugitive this year (the biker gang leader). I had actually planned to interact more with the other fugitives, but there really was no time. The action at my location was almost non-stop. My gang members and I had no time to finish off our booze (it was really just soda), play cards, or read our biker rags.

There were a lot more people this year compared to what i remember from last year. I believe the total player count was 98. That coupled with the northern part of the field being unusable unless you had a boat virtually forced bounty hunter teams to engage each other. There were a couple times that my bodyguards and I watched two or three teams fight it out. Twice I was shot and captured but then taken into the bondsman by a different team. I believe I was captured 9 times. The Russian boss was captured, but I know he was also shot multiple times while being escorted back.

One highlight for me was seeing the sniper fugitive, Sgt. Rock, at fort 3 take out a bounty hunter who was in the tower at fort E. I seriously believe that was a 100 YARD shot. Those of us who saw it were absolutely amazed. So was the player that got hit.

I think having more fugitives would have been good for the number of bounty hunter teams, but I am not sure where any more would have been located. The flooded north end really restricted everything a bit. By the way, Gary was trying to make sure no one was camping the teams bringing in fugitives. Someone else would have to comment on how that went. I bet it was tough with the number of teams.

[Dover]

If asked during the day if everything is going well and you sit quietly, stewing about the $20 dollars you just payed, and your not having fun, then maybe then maybe someone should speak up. If someone is hosting a game, anywhere not just the WGR, and requests feedback from the players and none is given, how can the host make corrections before it's too late? Having hosted games in the past, it's hard to make everyone happy. Someone always finds something to complain about.

Maybe when there is more cover, the weather is dryer and warm, some of you, meaning those unhappy with the way last weekends game played out, can setup, host, and run a game that everyone would enjoy.

[Maple]

Without getting into the middle of a verbal battle, Cleric, I think you have some good points. (Others do too, but I wanted to touch upon Cleric's statements)

Given the nature of the event, 98 (or so) bounty hunters going after 5 bounties would make it a tough event, especially if parts of the field are unusable do to flooding, killer toads or a cotton topped old lady wielding a broom.

Limiting the number of teams that can sign up would eliminate part of the problem, but then you are turning away players.
Adding more bounties may help too, but that still doesn't eliminate the "over crowding" of teams. (i.e. running into each other often)
Holding the event later in the year (say July) may help with some of the standing water, but if you get heavy rains the night before, then the flooding may still exist.

I think, and no I was not at the game, a mix of all three may help. If the field is drier, then using more of the field would help; once more foliage is on the trees, that would help too; increasing the number of bounties and spreading them out will help; make sure the bounties are having fun, but not making it too hard to catch, is important too; and lastly, penalize teams that are simply duking it out because they are bored with the event idea.

With a special concept game like BHW, it is hard to make everybody happy and it is hard to arrange the game to go off without any problems.
I think people offering up constructive ideas a week or two after the event is not a bad thing, as sometimes ideas pop in your head well after the event. At the same time, if something was flawed with the game and you have it on your mind, make sure to bring it up at the AAR.

-edit- I think some folks are getting heated over this thread and shouldn't be. Thus far, I have read some good constructive ideas that should be noted by event coordinators, and I don't just mean those in charge of BHW. I mean event coordinators in general.

[Doc]

I my self was just too tired to say anything about any issues I had with the game. Maybe that's the case with other people as well?

Here's my AAR that I posted on our team forum:

Well the game worked out exactly like I thought it would
The weather? Much better than I expected the day before.
The fun for me going into it knowing what to expect? Pretty good
The pain of my credit card now that I know Pf Chang's is on my way home? Pretty bad.

The final paying admission count was 98 people with most on 6 person teams some on 4 with only about 5 objectives on the field and 3/4ths of the field underwater.

Maus and I where there from team Echo and had some great people join us, I've seen Seppuku at alot of games but never got to run with him so that was cool. And we worked as a team pretty well Seppuku so you where not the weakest link or anything like that. It didn't help that I was using a stock p90 or stock offizer the whole time.

Most of the first half of the game was us trying to take down a bounty, getting close to the bounty with some losses, then being shot at in the rear and flanks by other teams plus by the bounty. It was hard enough trying to take down the bounty we went after as it was. He was very good at just popping his head out to shoot at us and in a game where shooting the bounty in the head kills your whole team... I'm not sure if he reloaded or not... I heard later that they where limited to one mag soooo not sure what happened.

If we had known that being killed by the bounty didn't cost us money we wouldn't have been in the hole so much.

We had to respawn at tower 1 almost every single time. And that wasn't too bad towards the end because we would just clear it out.
Finally we pretty much just said screw it. We agreed to goto tower one, wait for people to clear out then clear the fort/forest line in the open field. It was good bunker assault practice for me.

A few times at the end we would go into the forest trying to track down a bounty but get surrounded by multiple teams. We would take down alot but there's always just too many >.>

I used the game to use some guns that I haven't used in the longest time in an attempt for me to not sell them. I didn't see much vulture picking off near the hotel as Gary would yell at people to get out of his bunkers, but more so right around a bounty as I mentioned earlier.


I had alot of fun and it was nice to see all the people. But the limited targets, large amount of teams, and weather all had a huge snowballed effect on the game. It was no one's fault, that's just how this year's game went!

[Jun Wen]

Well for my friends last year, it was the first game for many of them. While they're surrounded by new people in a totally different environment, it's not exactly comfortable to bring up their concerns. They don't want to sound critical, and I wouldn't either. Most of the thoughts we had were hashed out on the drive back and the dinner afterwards.

[Maple]

I my self was just too tired to say anything about any issues I had with the game.

Sounds like somebody needs to spend more time on a treadmill and less time gallivanting around town with loose women and a bottle of whiskey. :o

(just trying to lighten the mood)

[Doc]

Sounds like somebody needs to spend more time on a treadmill and less time gallivanting around town with loose women and a bottle of whiskey. :o

(just trying to lighten the mood)

The drive is what kills me... I need to find a hotel near the field >.>

[jedibgp]

Pictures... (http://www.putfile.com/album/187502)

Disclaimer: You can use these pictures anyway you want... ;)

[Cochesse]

2/3 of the pics have been posted on I.C.E.'s website please feel free to check them out.

http://www.ironcrosselite.com/Photoalbum/index.php

I had a great time and I know the rest of ICE did as well. Thanks go to Gary for hosting a great event and for all the teams that showed up. Good job all