Best Sniper rifle? (upgrades)

[DKruse]

I am thinking about getting a sniper rifle, but between gas, spring, and electric I do not know which to go with.
So i am calling for your expertise(sp) I wouldn't mind a gas gun, since it's easy to ____ and it has the bolt... but how easy is it to upgrade? and can i get it upgraded to ~550 fps? or would it just be easier/less expensive to go with a AEG upgraded gun? (like a M-16 SPR type, or a PSG-1 type.) Also, is there any specific company you would recommend for a sniper variant rifle? (CA, TM, etc.)

[The_Ska_King]

most gas rifle go fast enough stock, and don't need upgrades unless you are going to use high pressure gas in which case you might have to put grade the internals.

[KA-JJ]

one of the only downsides to Gas rifles is that it is diabled in cold weather, pretty much under 50 degrees. correct me if im wrong on the temperature, but i know it has to be pretty nice for a gas rifle.

[Vanac]

-AEG-based Sniper Rifles are More Expensive to build

-AEG-based Sniper Rifles are generally less reliable

-AEG-based Sniper Rifles require more intensive maintenance

-AEG-based Sniper Rifles cycle mechanically
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-Gas-based Sniper Rifles are a little less expensive

-Gas-based Sniper Rifles are more suseptible to climate changes

-Gas-based Sniper Rifles have less parts to maintain

-Gas-based Sniper Rifles are easier to cycle
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-Spring-based Sniper Rifles are around the mid-range, price wise

-Spring-based Sniper Rifles require regular maintenance

-Spring-based Sniper Rifles have less climate restraints

-Spring-based Sniper Rifles are generally more difficult to cycle
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Borrowed from Texx.

[DKruse]

thank you gentlemen, and umm... thanks to you too dan... i guess :P

[RTO]

Just my 2 cents, i know i'm a bit late, but yeah. I had an APS2 SV that I upgraded the hell out of. New cylinder, new piston/piston head setup, pdi spring, spring guide, teflon reciever, tightbore barrel w/ adjustable hopup (drilled hole in outer barrel so i could adjust while in combat), sliencer attachment w/ KA 290mm x 40mm lightweight silencer, and a really nice scope on it.

It shot out about 450-475 fps (never had a chance to actually chrono it, but it went through about 4 soda cans and then into a cardboard box behind all four, or dented the mailbox behind it w/ abuot a 8mm dent, depends on which time we're talking about), and lets just say that I was able to ACCURATELY hit a soda can on a post from about 300 feet away. It was really nice. This is a spring cocking weapon none the less. So figure I spent about 1000 putting work and labor into the thing (there was a bit more on the gun that brought it up to one grand) and it was worth it. Only thing is the nice little rule of no enguaging under 100 ft was my main concern so i got rid of it. Didn't want to put a bb into someones head and crack the skull or something, lol...

Yeah, they are worth it if you are willing to go that extra distance and have limitations in my opinion (spring sniper rifles i mean). Its all a preferance of how much money and time you want to put in.

Good Luck with your decision! If any at all;)

EDIT: Yeah, ha ha... I forgot, never order anything over seas and use paypal without making sure that you know your credit card is going to be billed rather than your bank account. Frickin Cash advances really really really suck, intrest rates on an order like what I placed really suck..
Just thought I'd let ya'll know:D! lol

[SINN FEIN]

Gas guns are nice, but price will depend on what gun you get. YOu can spend around $200 on a KJW M700, and have it shooting 550 out of the box. I personally didn't like the looks, so I purchased a Maruzen L96 with a gas bolt for $450, and it gets the same results. So I basically paid an extra $250 for the looks of the gun, and an extra 19 rounds in the mag. I later added a 6.03mm tightbore for another 99$ shipped from dentrinity, and was very pleased with it's accuracy(until the gas bolt broke). Cycling the bolt is fast and easy, but you will have to either have an alternate weapon for the winter, or purchase a seperate cylender with spring set-up.

If you're looking for a well rounded sniper rifle for a good price, you may want to look into the TM VSR series. I don't personally own one, but my friend has one, and he is very happy with it. I'll leave the review up to him though.

[SHOGUN]

I own a VSR-10 G Spec. I have operated as both a sniper and as a designated marksman for Group W. Here are my thoughts.

The VSR-10 G Spec is a totaly different gun than any of the rest of the VSR series. Internals are not interchangable. Make sure you know what you're getting. It's a good gun, but once upgraded you're looking at close to $1000.

The sniper rifle and the sniper role is totally different than playing airsoft with an AEG. I don't reccomend it for first time airsofters. I also don't reccomend a sniper rifle for your "primary" airsoft gun. Most skirmishes around here have little to no opportunity for actual sniper employment, so you wind up spending a lot of money for a sniper rifle that you never get to use to its full potential.

If you do decide to go sniper, you must train. Make sure you know how to accurately estimate range. It's a safety issue. You must be able to consistantly and reliably determine when an opponent is less than 100 feet away and not shoot. That's a lot harder than it sounds! Invest your money in quality equipment and invest your time in training and you can make this work. If someone just wants to casually fool around with "being a sniper" they're going to wind up frustrated.

If anyone wants to know more about the G Spec or anything else, you can PM me.

[seppuku]

....Make sure you know how to accurately estimate range. It's a safety issue. You must be able to consistantly and reliably determine when an opponent is less than 100 feet away and not shoot. That's a lot harder than it sounds!....not that i'm a wussy (i am), and not that i don't trust people (i don't), but i'm usually somewhat hesitant when taking the field if there's a "sniper" on the other team. there's been a few times when a guy next me gets picked off by some dude with a sniper rifle who's arguably within 100 feet of said victim...and it's not a pretty sight. i just don't know how much faith i have in my fellow man to be able to accurately judge distances, especially in the heat of battle.

this may sound "extreme", but wouldn't it make sense to have some sort of quick distance-judging test for people walking out on the field with 550 fps sniper rifles? as confident as i'm sure other people are in their own abilities, and as much as this is a sport of honor, many times we are playing with/against complete strangers of who we know very little about (and let's face it, not everyone plays honorably). as time-consuming as it can be, it's nice to see more chronographing taking place at skirmishes, but i just wonder if there shouldn't be something specific for "certifying" people using sniper-grade weapons, which are arguably one of the more dangerous elements in airsoft. true, close range combat with a 400 fps AEG is also dangerous (especially in bunkers and blind-wall scenarios), but it's much easier to judge 10 feet as opposed to 100 feet.

as a side note, how did these velocity and distance restrictions come about? i picture a group of early airsofters in front of a firing squad....."ow. ok, closer....ow! ok, closer....OW! ok, closer....F@#$ that smarts!!! too close!" :cry:

[Ben]

Let snipers yell bang within 100 ft, and they wont shoot ya :]

[RTO]

ha ha ha... pain is in the game. If I get hit, yeah I'm going to piss and moan about it because he knows he is breaking the rules, but its just a game. Now if it was a ten foot shot w/ a 450 fps gun, ha ha ha.. Then the guy better be able to run, cuz thats when its uncalled for. lol

Anyway, as far as your sniper on the field goes, its their duty to know how far one hundred feet is and if they should take the shot or not. Its not really hard to know how far it is, and when in doubt, just go to a backup weapon (which I hope most snipers are looking at getting soon if they dont already have one).

I have seen some nasty shots come from this though, I'll agree with you too seppuku.

[DKruse]

I got "ramboed" by a guy during a game at the WGR once... wasn't a sniper... but he blatently charged out fortification, and shot us all (within 5 feet) full auto and everything... yeah, I was bleeding after that. But i do have a Gas non-blow back HFC PPK and a "broken" gas blow back KWA M9 and plan to also get a WA 1911 Gas Blow back... so my side arm choice will be huge :P

[SINN FEIN]

The only problem is that most people don't know exactly what 100 feet is, as it seems much longer than it is. I cut 100 feet of twine, and went around our yard, laying it out to get a feel for the distance, and I was surprised at how short it actually was. Next game, perhaps I will bring it, and we can all get a feel for what it is. I know that there are those of you who insist that only the snipers need to know the distance, but it is probably better if we all take a look so that a sniper doesn't get yelled at fruitlessly(<-spelling?)

[RTO]

Hey, I agree with that one. Its not just snipers who need to know the 100 ft distance, it is everyone. Considering some people have over 400 fps guns, they too need to know that 100 ft distance. But when we say snipers need to know it is mainly because of how they are the ones who are utilizing it most of the time.

[Razor]

I know that there are those of you who insist that only the snipers need to know the distance, but it is probably better if we all take a look so that a sniper doesn't get yelled at fruitlessly(<-spelling?)

We should also take a look at the distance so that another set of eyes are available if an argument comes up or if an unsafe condition is presenting itself. If I have time I may pick up one of these to be accurate:

http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?BV_UseBVCookie=Yes&vertical=SEARS&sid=I0033900150001800085&pid=00939011000

If the 100' sniper rule is intended as a safety element then I think there should be some type of quick test of what is/is not 100'. Maybe 2 objects in the field to judge distance against? While it may be expensive if I had to do sniping, I have no intention to fire 401+, I'd invest in a laser range finder just to have another tool to try and get the shooting range right.

[SINN FEIN]

Hmmm, I'm sure that this would be VERY unpopular, but perhaps Gary could add on an extra dollar to everyone's admission fee for 1 game, and use the extra $$ to buy a 100 foot tape measure.

[RTO]

he has something setup to tell the 100 ft.. i remember talking to him about it.. he has some objects spaced apart respectively for the 100 ft distance

[perculator]

yeah the metal stand the crono was on at BHD to the first white building is 100 ft. but yeah a mounted laser range finder would be cool

[SINN FEIN]

Yeah, but for measuring individual disputes.

[SHOGUN]

Here's my answer:

If you're really acting in the sniper role you should always be partnered with your observer, just like real snipers. The observer helps ID targets, helps call shot corrections, and provides security to the sniper team. If you're more than 100 feet away, the sniper takes the shot; if less than 100 feet the observer takes the shot. Of course, this can't be a rule, but it should be your SOP. That makes two people estimating range, and you've got a non sniper class weapon for taking the close shots.

As far as judging distance goes, try it. Pick out a target, guess how far it is, then measure the distance. Once you get pretty good at that, then do the same thing with players: standing, kneeling, and prone - both yourself and the target. You'll be surprised how height of target, shooter's position, relative elevation, and ambient lighting affect your ability to call the range. Not to mention if you're a 6' tall guy and estimating the range against someone who's 5' tall. Just like the rest of airsoft it comes down to practice practice practice.

[RTO]

Well said. I guess that we just have to put a little bit more effort into our sniper buddies and get them paried up with a non sniper buddy more often!

[SINN FEIN]

Well said and all, but how many people want to hang back and rarely use their AEGs? I've crawled the length of the field, and it's very unpleasent i must tell you. My point is that most people don't prefer the sniper role because it is time consuming, and takes a lot of patience. So if you have an automatic gun and want to hang by a sniper all day, good for you, but I doubt many people will voulenteer.

[Doc]

*waves his hand franticly*

I would love to do something like that. Just let me know when and where!

[RTO]

Personally, that should almost be a "rule" of sorts if your using a gun say over 450 fps. This all boils down to safety and if you are using guns over that 400 fps range and do get in close, its your butt that will get grilled because you took the shot, right?

Anyway, yeah, IMO, it should almost be standard if you have a HIGHLY upgraded rifle. Just a system of safety checks almost. Sniper says I have the shot, other person verifys if the shot is valid and then they take it if it is. If not, then the second person should be taking the shot. So depending on how heated of battle the scenario gets, the backup for the sniper might get the most action of the day if you plan your area well. Right? Or are people not reading and thinking this the same way I am?

[Razor]

Well said and all, but how many people want to hang back and rarely use their AEGs?

I know I've run across some airsoft sniper material on the web that has rules where scout/snipers only work in 2-man teams. Granted these were mostly articles related to big fields where snipers didn't have to worry about only having 1 or 2 100' shooting lanes. The teams were used more for spotters/recon than snipers, they didn't carry much ammo and didn't shoot much. Just some food for thougt.

[SINN FEIN]

I don't think that we are thinking the same thing RTO. In my opinion, a sniper should stay at the outskirts of the battle and eliminate targets of opportunity. This is why they have a sniper rifle rather than an AEG, for the long shots. They should avoid at all costs direct engagement with enemy forces, no matter how heated of a battle it is.

[JC^1]

I don't think that we are thinking the same thing RTO. In my opinion, a sniper should stay at the outskirts of the battle and eliminate targets of opportunity. This is why they have a sniper rifle rather than an AEG, for the long shots. They should avoid at all costs direct engagement with enemy forces, no matter how heated of a battle it is.

Agreed, If you get too close to a fire fight all the aeg users are going to do is supress you with a spray of bbs and eventually hit u.

[JC^1]

The VSR-10 G Spec is a totaly different gun than any of the rest of the VSR series. Internals are not interchangable. Make sure you know what you're getting. It's a good gun, but once upgraded you're looking at close to $1000.

WHAT!

The only things different about the G-Spec is:
Tighter barrel
Better Hop up
Scope Mount
Sling Mounts
Sound Compressor
Cocking Handle

And most of that is on the outside

It takes less then 500 Dollars upgrading ANY Vsr Series to the full amount:

Trigger Sear: 35$
500fps Cylinder Set For Marui VSR-10 Series(meens it can be used with any of the vsr-10 series): 160$
-Cylinder
-Cylinder Head
-Upgraded Spring
-Aluminium Spring Guide
-Nylon Piston & Bore Piston Head
6.03mm Inner Barrel (555mm) 52$
First Piston Sear: 24$
Cylinder Release Lever 27$
Steel Trigger Stop 27$
G-spec gun: 159$

Total: 484$ raw number not including shipping or tax, and includes no cosmetic features

*edited to include actual gun price*

[Maple]

Just weighing in with my opinion here.
A sniper often acts as a scout more than they act as a shooter. A well placed sniper team (sniper and spotter) can do more damage to the enemy by coordinating a precision strike for the main force of their team. Even with the accuaracy of a well done upgraded AEG/ Gas/ Spring rifle, they still will not be able to hit targets at 500ft. A team of scout snipers with a pair of binoculars and a radio can relay important info back to their leader and have their ground pounders attack in force.
If, and only if an attack of opportunity comes up should the sniper consider taking a shot.
-maple

[RTO]

Forgetting entirely what I said before. I do agree with the Col. on this one too.
As far as sitting on the outskirts of a battle, yeah, thats usually what they do. Unless they takeup a tower or ignore the 100 ft enguagement rule.

Typically I do see most snipers setting up on the outskirts, but the few who dont' sit right in the middle of the field and think that they intimidate the people they are playing against. Sorry, not really intimidating to me when you can only pull off one shot at a time. Thats why the AEG helps you out. Thats kinda what I'm getting at/what I was trying to get at I guess.

[nemesis]

for the most part i agree with the stuff on here... however have you ever read on the world war 2 snipers between germany and russia
or seen enemy at the gates???

well i have done both and have learned that there are times where the sniper will not want to have a spotter with him/her. as the person is going to be sitting in the spot for a long period of time and anymovements get him/her caught...

that is just my opinion and how i operate... i agree however alot of the time you do want a spotter but not always

[Maple]

Forgetting entirely what I said before. I do agree with the Col. on this one too.
As far as sitting on the outskirts of a battle, yeah, thats usually what they do. Unless they takeup a tower or ignore the 100 ft enguagement rule.

Typically I do see most snipers setting up on the outskirts, but the few who dont' sit right in the middle of the field and think that they intimidate the people they are playing against. Sorry, not really intimidating to me when you can only pull off one shot at a time. Thats why the AEG helps you out. Thats kinda what I'm getting at/what I was trying to get at I guess.

A well placed sniper can be very intimidating, especially when you can't find him and every time one of your crew sticks their head up... bam, another one goes down.
Not to name any names, but I've heard stories of a certain scout/sniper team that is rather good at doing both recon and wetwork. I'll give a hint, they're on a team that rhymes with Troop Double U.

[RTO]

... Hmm, Troup Double U...

Whos this that your talking about Maple? Just curious to know, so I keep myself prepared for the heat of battle, and know NOT to stick my head up. (i'll low crawl the whole day) lol;)

[SHOGUN]

As to whether or not you can stick close to $1000 into a VSR-10 GSPEC, believe me, you can. I didn't say you had to, but you can. It's harder to get an AEG up to sniper class without spending that kind of coin. Also, I wasn't referring to just the gun, I was referring to gun, internals, labor (yep, I pay for a professional to do it), optics, rings, bipod, mags, and all the little things (camo, killflash, etc). And S&H is sorta like S&M when you're ordering all those things - you can pay me now, or you can pay me later, but you will pay. The whole setup is costly. Not to mention lovingly crafting a ghilie suit by hand...or as I call them "chia trousers".

Being an airsoft sniper is a tiny role. Most of the time it's nothing at all like what the movies portray it as. It's not cheap. It's not easy. It can be fulfilling. It is just as likely to be frustrating. But as Doc pointed out, there are people willing to put in the money, time and effort to try to make it work. Some will be successful. Some will just suc. ;)

[RTO]

... Some will be successful. Some will just suc. ;)

HA HA HA! Gotta love it!

Agree 100% on that one.

[SINN FEIN]

Yes it does take a lot of time and patience to make it work, as well as determination. But there is nothing like watching your target flinch from a shot 200+ feet away through your scope.

[Maple]

... Hmm, Troup Double U...

Whos this that your talking about Maple? Just curious to know, so I keep myself prepared for the heat of battle, and know NOT to stick my head up. (i'll low crawl the whole day) lol;)

It won't matter if you stick your head up or not, they'll know where you are and be waiting.... or they will call in the troops and disappear without you ever knowing that they were there. Either way, you're screwed. :cry:

[nemesis]

what happens when the sniper is being hunted by another sniper??? what will happen then?

[Maple]

Sounds like a challenge. You'll have to throw down the gauntlet with Troop Double U to find out.

[SINN FEIN]

Perhaps we should have a sniper rifles only portion at a future game.

[nemesis]

honestly all a sniper is a person who has exceptionally good aim with what ever rifle they use...

for all it truly matters is it could be a mp5k. the thing is you have 1 shot to do it with before you give your position away.

a true sniper always has a way out. has a good spot and does not give his spot away untill the shot is a guarantee hit...

honestly there is no such thing as a best sniper rifle.

one person is going to say one thing because it works for them
and the next person is going to say something else because that is the gun they are best with

in order to be a sniper you have to get the feel for several guns and find the one that fits you best

[Maple]

A good sniper will not give away his position even when he takes the shot.

I agree to a point that no weapon is truly the best sniper weapon, but there are certain guns that work much better than others for this task. In airsoft, there are a handful of weapons that are good sniper guns, but even then, you will have to sink some cash into them to make them great. Besides a gun, there are several other pieces of equipment that you'll need to fulfill the role of a sniper well.
For the average player, buying a "sniper" gun for your primary is not a good idea. Buy an aeg, put some cash into some decent gear/ upgrades and if you really want to play sniper sometimes, buy a spring/ gas rifle down the road.
But that's just my opinion.
-maple

[nemesis]

that is very true but even in real life it is almost impossible to take a shot without at least giving a hint of what your position is...

i.e. where the shot came from, the sound of the gun. the reflection of sun on the lense of a scope or red dot... etc etc

i wont give all the tells away but those are a few
but in general it is kind of like poker... you have your winning spots and your losing ones

[SHOGUN]

Yes it does take a lot of time and patience to make it work, as well as determination. But there is nothing like watching your target flinch from a shot 200+ feet away through your scope.

Unless it's watching the BB through your optics bounce off their web gear. Get the follow-up shot off and bounce one off the second guy's gear too. Then have them both LIGHT MY $H*T UP on full auto. "We didn't feel the hits..."

Oh yeah...it's great.

[SINN FEIN]

My sarcasm senses are tingling.