Airsoft Ban in WI

[Corster]

This is more a suggestion for the web site then the forum. Please move this if needed.

I was thinking it would be a really good idea to build a database of all of the Countys/Citys that have bans on airsoft throughout WI. I would be very willing to help build the database. It would help a lot of people that are getting into the sport find out what their specific laws are.

Another thing would be a map of all active fields and retailers in WI. That can be setup through a Google service that is free.

Thoughts?

[shadow20]

I think that would be great idea and maybe if needed I will help. I think that it would save others time on posts asking where teams are. and where I can find this place and this place, and we can just say look on the map it is very easy and you will have all the choices there for yourself

[MERC]

Great idea. I could also help. (not a whole lot, but I can set some of the sight up.)

[assault]

Yah, I know what your saying. Ok, how about this. A map of Wisconsin, when you put your mouse over the county, it will display all the things that are in that county related to airsoft. Such has fields, stores, bans, etc. What do you think?

[Corster]

That would be an awesome way to do it. Now you have to find someone that is a programer (JAVA/Flash), and is willing to put in the programming time into it. That is the hard part.

(you could just have a simple red / green map also. If your county is red, airsoft is ban, if it's green, no ban)

The easy part is calling your local governments and getting the info and compiling it into a joint database. Which can be worked on in the mean time, and will be needed anyway.

Who runs this site/makes the decisions on this stuff?

[Ghostbear]

I dont like to get tied to a specific engine for things like the Google engines. At some point the whole thing could be turned off because of lack of use and then the data is lost. I do like the idea though. But, keeping it local would be the way to persue it, not via Google.

[Corster]

I'd like to start working on this if you are interested in this for the site.

I agree that it's better not to use Google apps if possible. It's just an easy way to do it if you can't find someone that knows programing as mentioned.

If you'd like, i volunteer to take the SE section of the state. This would include the following counties and the cities residing in them:

Milwaukee
Waukesha
Racine
Kenosha
Walworth
Jefferson
Ozaukee
Washington
Dodge

That should keep me buisy for a while.

Anyone else?

[MERC]

I could do some North east stuff, Oconto Falls, Gillet, Lena, Abrams, Greenbay, ect.

[Ghostbear]

Before you start.

You have to give me a list (post it here) of what you are going to be asking about?

Things like:

Who you talked to?
Their position?
Is this an official or un-official statement?
Would you be willing to supply a written official statement on the position of airsoft in your community to the WAA?
What is the law, as interpeted by your office, on airsoft in your (city, county)?
Have you heard of airsoft before this visit/interview?
How many confrontations have you had involving airsoft?
....

This is not going to be some off the cuff call and say hi, how are you? So, you play airsoft? kinda chat with the first person that picks up the phone.

This is going to have to be complete and repeatable, which means your data is going to be verified.

So, before you do anything, you have to come up with a list of what you want to ask, then we get to add to that list, because I am sure that you arent going to ask as many questions that I have. :)

But, that is a good start.

[Corster]

Some questions for you...

Would a writen official statment be the verification?

Where would they send these to? Does the WAA have a PO Box?

Are we to post our filled out forms here? If not, where would you like those?

Does County law, trump City law? (like Federal law does for State law)

[Batman]

Does County law, trump City law? (like Federal law does for State law)
It works like this, if your City, Town or Village does not have an ordinance prohibiting it, but your county does, you can still be cited by the agency you have contact with & refered to your county's circut court under the county ord. violation.

In terms of "Trumping", we do not trump, or beat other municipalities laws. We mearly enforce those the county board has passed.

If your county has an Ord, prohibiting airsoft & the city you live in does not, yes, it can still be enforced.... But also keep in mind, most city cops don't bother with county ordinances, because their ordinances are usuially more restrictive anyway.

Hope this helped.

[Ghostbear]

Corster,

Understand that the official and unofficial statements are normally not the same. Unofficially the officer might not care about airsoft, as he is more concerned with other offenders like DUI or something else that is much more damaging or potential for harm to others than airsoft.

However, the official statement must comply with the governing body (City Council, County Board...) and THEY might have a different take on it. So, the official and unofficial could be two different things.

If a statement that is given to the interviewer is unoffical and an official statement is mailed in, if they are too polar then it might justify a call to confirm. But, for the most part if an official statement is sent in, then we would be fine with the information contained in it.

[Corster]

Here is a response from West Allis City Attorney Cheryl L. Wentland:



I have never heard of Airsoft before and I am not aware of any
confrontations, so I have not had to interpret the law. You may wish to
check with our police department at 414-302-8000. This is the West Allis
Revised Municipal Code section that covers air rifles:

6.01 PUBLIC SAFETY.

(1) Shooting of Firearms. No person shall fire or discharge any cannon,
gun, fowling piece or firearm of any description containing powder or other
explosive or combustible material within the limits of the City, except upon
special permit granted by the Chief of Police, or except in a shooting
gallery, gun range or place to practice target shooting licensed by the
City.

(2) Air Rifles, Sling Shots, Bows and Arrows.

(a) Use Prohibited. No person shall shoot, discharge or fire an air
rifle, air gun, sling shot, bows and arrows, or any other or similar device
within the City, which is dangerous to life, limb or property, subject to
the exceptions herein.

(b) Exceptions. Nothing in this section shall prevent the discharge of
bows and arrows in properly designated locations under the supervision of
authorized recreation authorities, nor the discharge of bows and arrows and
air rifles in private ranges or galleries constructed and maintained, as
required by the Building Inspector, so as not to endanger life, limb or
property.

(c) Penalty. In addition to payment of the penalty prescribed in
Section 6.04, each violator shall forfeit the air rifle, air gun, sling
shot, bow and arrow or other or similar device used by the violator, which
device shall also be confiscated.


So, i guess i need to go further and call the Police Dept to get the nuts and bolts. I didn't know who to start with, and thought the City Attorney would be a good start.

From what i gather, it's ban under an umbrella of "air guns or air rifle". Which is really not good for me since we have held games at my house for the last year. In fact, we have one this monday, 8 guys shoing up.

What's your take?

[Agent J]

"Combustible materials"


Hmmm . . . think green gas counts (Don't even think the word "propane")?

[Ghostbear]

WHOA sparky,

The list of questions of what to ask isnt even decided yet. So, what are you going to ask him?

Just hold your horses and then when the questions and such are set, it can be asked.

Plus, you arent saying your part of the WAA are you? because you arent, and I dont want to have someone trying to speak to law enforcement and city officials hijacking the WAA name and in their minds speaking for the WAA on anything let alone something this important.

So, just stop if you are trying to contact people.

[DKruse]

It also depends on the case for the ordinance, if an officer sees it plain, he might not care, if he gets a call about it, he might care a little more. If you are just shooting a little cardboard target, he might care less if you are shooting a friend or stranger. The problem with laws is... they are up to interpretation. The same written ordinance could be enforced and penalized differently between two city/county bodies. The West Allis CA even said
I have never heard of Airsoft before and I am not aware of any confrontations, so I have not had to interpret the law.

[Corster]

I appreciate and respect your status here. I would never impersonate someone, or something i'm not. You can rest assured that they have no idea this organization even exists.

Furthermore, the response i recieved was a follow-up to an inquiry i had months ago. I had contacted the city when i got into the sport, and through this disussion, decided that i would get more information. This was important to me becouse we do play here. If i recieved wrong information initially, which seems to be the case, i want to correct it before something happens. I'm not an idiot.

I will admit, i am very head-strong and sometimes get ahead of myself. I believe this may be the case here, and i apoligize. I am used to getting things done (not getting my way, getting things done), which i have had the privalage of in my car club where i held Vice President office for years. I realize this is completely different, and will back off untill asked. So yes, i will cease any attempts to contact any official on this matter.

Again, i apoligize for any wrong-doing i have done. I was just trying to help, what i believe to be, a great cause.

[Maple]

No wrong doing, but I think it best if we all (WAA members and non-members) get on the same page before tackling this project.
I think you have a good idea going here, and with a bit of teamwork, we can crack this out and benefit the entire WI airsoft community.

[Ghostbear]

Corster,

There is no wrong doing, the reason to hold back until this is setup, is for many reasons but the biggest and the first that comes to my mind is asking ALL the questions we want answered in one shot.

That will allow the database to fill up with answers and not have gaps, or have people having to contact people again to get the rest of the answers. Some officials will give you time, not really knowing what you are going to ask, answer correctly, but will not give you more time for quite a while. So, you kinda get one shot at the list of questions. I just want to make sure we have the list setup and standardized so that the database is as complete as possible.

[Corster]

I fully understand and agree.

I have been brain-storming and came up with the following.


Permissions:

Since the Chief of Police can grant permissions for use of arms (air guns or otherwise) within the city, i think a question to the affect of; what are the steps that need to be taken to get permission - or - would this even be considered?

I realize this would change with new officers, but it may give people guide lines to follow to recieve speacial permission to host games on their own property.

This would be a win-win for both sides. The host wouldn't have fears of fines, jail time, confiscation, ect. For the officers, they would know the address, time & date, how many people, and all other pertinent information of the games being held (so they don't come in with the SWAT team).

Thoughts?