AAR: southern fury

[blitz]

WTF! you cheeseheads were worthless!!! why even come next game?:D you shouldve sent maypole!!!

hope the dude who twisted his ankle is fine....


great running w/ you guys, and its nice to finally put a face on the screen names here.... til next event we wont back down being outnumbered 47 vs. 110 :D :D :D

[blitz]

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h52/teamcifor/southern%20fury%20july%202007/100_3152.jpg

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h52/teamcifor/southern%20fury%20july%202007/100_3145.jpg

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h52/teamcifor/southern%20fury%20july%202007/100_3141.jpg

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h52/teamcifor/southern%20fury%20july%202007/100_3110.jpg


http://s61.photobucket.com/albums/h52/teamcifor/southern%20fury%20july%202007/

[Batman]

I said it at the beginning of the day & I'll say it again now.... "We're outnumbered more then 2 to one.... Hell, almost 3 to one.... I like these odds!!!

Good job guys! Even with the friendly fire chubes, we still walked our objectives (After that 1st hour)

[A-Ron]

The odds were awesome. I didn't die as much as I thought, I had to pull myself from the game more times than I died to fix my gun.
After I got sick of it I finally put the gun away and took out the camera.
At that time all I gotta say is wow.... Nobody really knows hot to tell the difference of a camera and a gun I guess.

http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/322/dsc0050di3.jpg (http://picasaweb.google.com/slusarek.aaron/SouthernFury)
Click image to view gallery

[majwinters636]

where is this field located?

[A-Ron]

http://www.blastcamp.com/

[daemondog]

I have to say that I enjoyed the game. The field offered new challenges with over-grown trails and trenches. It has a little bit of everything...buildings, bunkers, trenches. I wouldn't drive down there every weekend...but I'd defiantly go there for a well planned event. The field has the potential for a well planned scenario.

[Stylin7]

I had a Great time! Definitely plan to hit this place again. Great playing with the CiFor guys. Always good to put faces to some names.

Thanks for the pics a-ron.

[Fish]

Sadly I couldn't go but I have been before and Blastcamp freaking rocks.

[Cleric]

I had a great time as well. I also expected to get shot out a lot being so outnumbered, but it did not happen. The field is very cool, and I hope to be able to go there again soon. I really enjoyed playing in the buildings, since I have not been able to do that much yet.

The only criticism I can think of right now is that safety seemed a little lax. I know its tough to keep an eye on that many people (157 or so), but there were too many mags in guns and dry firing in the safe area.

[Loofah]

Well this was one for my books!
The turnout was awesome-157 i think? So while that makes things more complicated-it was target rich fun! Was a good challenge also. I had NO clue how well we were doing till 20 minutes before the end. My jaw dropped honestly.

The field kicks ass and has crazy potential. Good mix of all things.
Having 47 people on our team, and not knowing 110 was what we faced, it was quite the suprise to hear the US pulled off all thier missions and some bonus stuff! The op itself ended an hour early-but there was free trigger time for anyone who didnt get enough.

I reccomend this for any player-being aware that it can change from field play to CQB in mere seconds, but any experienced player will enjoy that, painful or not.

Sending RPG's through windows saved some ammo also. Good stuff!

Thanks Destro-looking forward to more involved games![:Y:]

EDIT-Cleric- i actually didnt see that-really!? Thats a bummer. One more lesson for the organizers.

[blitz]

Sending RPG's through windows saved some ammo also. Good stuff!

.

like the real world, US sends bigger guns to blow stuff up :). had fun shooting CIFors little friend. RPG and grenades really changes the dynamics of the game.

[Batman]

Tim, Yeah! I actuially had a guy, trying to fix his battery connection, sweep his barrel accross my face, from about 3 feet, with his finger on the trigger & mag in!!! This was sitting under a tree, in staging, where I was chatting with another player I knew that he was with.

& now, the rest of my AAR, that I was too tired to post before.....

My day started with an early rise & drive to the field, only to find that the gate was not open on time. When the gate did open, players who were just showing up, cut off everyone who was trying to file into the lot, from the parking spots they had taken on the sides of the road. (Hmmm, IL plates on their cars & they were cutting everyone else off.... Sounds normal)

We got in & went to wait for the registration booth to open. A short while later, it did & we paid. $28 to play. I handed them two $20 bills, got my change & headded off to grab gear, when another player asked me "Did you pay with two $20s?" He then explained that the guy behind the counter had picked up correct change for him, only to replace the $10 bill with a $5 bill. A check of my wallet confirmed that I had also been "lucky" enough to get a $5 in place of the $10. I had no way of prooving it though, since I was now already 100 yds away from the booth. At least the other guy caught it & warned the rest of our group to count their change. (For the record, I am not accusing the cashier of intentional fraud... I do not know why this happened. It obviously appears bad, but for all I know, he was confused on the price).

The 1st 2 hours of the day can be summed up by this. "Get shot at, from almost every angle, while hugging the bast of a bush & outnumbered." We spent the whole time pretty bogged down & didn't get to do much. Then we shifted & started clearing out the back side....... Ohhhhh, from there, the kills racked up!!!!

End of the day was not something I was happy about. We had taken the Supply & barrac BLDGs right accross the street from the other team's base. We were told that our objective was to over-run it. We danced around with them for a while & then Stylin & I just said screw it & went over. We hit the side wall of their base un-touched & went for the door. As I went to it, there were 2 bodies standing in the doorway. I shot at both, hitting them, then crossed to a window that exposes the whole room. From there, I swepped the room, right to left, shooting 3 more guys. At this point, I'm thinking the room is clear, but we need to check farther left, into the deep corner. We have 5 min, before the guys we just shot re-spawn, so there is time to work with, right? Oh, this is where all 5 of them open up on us, from about 7 feet away (there was a 5 foot rule, vs our usuial 10, so no problem with the distance). I got TORCHED in the forearms, face & top of head. We then find out that the other team had JUST gotten told they had "instantanious respawn." Nice! Yeah, Um, WTF is that?!?!?!

Anyway, that was the end of the day for me. Other then that, I will absolutly say that I saw more friendly fire & playing on after a hit there then I have EVER seen at another airsoft game, but the field is awesome & the vast majority of the players are cool, so I will be back. I'll just count my change & make sure I clearify rules haven't changed, when taking objectives;)

[Loofah]

And the phrase of the day was.....Where the fock is Andy?:)

[A-Ron]

And the phrase of the day was.....Where the fock is Andy?:)
thupt thupt thupt.... he he heeee... thupt thupt thupt...

L33T '60 SNIPA!!!

[Downslide]

"This one time....at BLAST CAMP...."

[Loofah]

Wow-we really do make that Multicam look sexy dont we!?;)

[Downslide]

0815: Pull up to LINE OF CARS ON ROAD…”uh, I thought the field was going to be open @ 0800?” No biggie, everybody has a day like that now and then.

0845(ish): Let’s stand in line a while, shall we? Paid – “CHECK YER CHANGE!” -- break out the gear.

0945(ish): “Uh, we forgot the chronographs, so we have to go back to the store to get them”

0h-1045-ish: Everbody got together for “the briefing.” Typical “blah, blah…don’t shoot yer eye out kid…blah, blah” stuff, with the exception of the LIVE weapon in the hand of the “Brief-or”. Oh, that and the OC/REFs are also the head leaders of the two main sides of the battle. (How is that neutral and unbiased?) The other quirk was the “We have strict rules for a reason”, to be followed with “We had a few guns chrony in at 405-410, but that’s okay, we’re not gonna let a few FPS too high ruin somebody’s day out here.”

1130-ish: Hit the field and hump it to the US HQ. Nice little walk. The field is actually pretty cool and well laid out.

1145-ish: GAME ON! A dozen or so of us are tasked to take and secure the motor pool – a collection of small buildings. We ended up getting broken up into 3 groups and encountered heavy resistance to all 3 groups. After making no real head way for the better part of an hour, it is decided to double back and try a “different approach” Heh.

The US got better results after that slow first hour, and we whisked thru all of our objectives – and even captured the enemy leader! – while the AVN barely managed to accomplish half of their objectives.

1430-ish: The US leader – and one of the game coordinators and refs – says he “has to leave now” and we are left with an overrun HQ (and no clear communication about where we are to respawn anymore) and the “instant respawn” rule change for the AVN. I never was able to wrap my head around that one, I mean, they DID out number us 2 to 1, now they need that TOO? I called it a day.

The GOOD:
- Running with TFD, GroupW, and CiFor.
- Getting to run my Shrike.
- Successfully preventing Batman from getting lit up on 3 separate occasions. 
- The overall field design and layout.
- That poor kid caught between Batman’s squad and A-Ron, DaemonDog, and I who erroneously answered to the “Shocker” challenge.
- The CQB experience in the barracks.
- The reassuring –and singularly unique on the field—occasional “Thucka, thucka, thucka” report of Andy’s M60 that could be heard from half way across the field.

The BAD:
- The pistol grip on my Shrike coming loose.
- The surprise thorny tangle vines at neck level in some of the bushes.
- The lack of knowledgeable refs.
- The surprising number of rookie players.
- The respawn rule change.
- One of the coordinators leaving early.
The UGLY:
- The blatant lack of hit calling spread throughout the game.
- The heavy amount of talking dead men.
- That ASSHAT in the barracks that Batman lit up—TWICE—who pointed and directed when asked by his teammates where he got shot from—only to try and deny it.
- The kid that I shot, who audibly yelled “OW”, but then shot at Loofah –and missed – and took an additional two more solid body stitchings before finally calling himself out.

The MEMORABLE:
-DaemonDog, in the trench, taking fire and trying to get back around the corner—Thru A-Ron…and managing NOT to get hit.
- Loofah, going to check a bunker, and disappearing from site with at “THUD” only to spring back into view—“I’m fine”.
- Keeping up with Batman thru that uber-tangle of krap they call “Brush” down there, to flank the Tangos.
- Andy, the M60 toting Sniper.
- The poop-eatin’ grin on Andy’s face when he crawled up into the turret of the “tank” (old forf BroncoII with no muffler –which I could STILL hear the M60 over) with his M60 –“This should be fun…”
- This one time….At Blast Camp…”


Conclusion:
I give the field a solid B+. I would consider going again, for the RIGHT game.

[Fish]

Only a B+ for Blast Camp? This one time, at Blast Camp, I thought it was better than that. All they need are dryer floors and a weed wacker or two.

[blitz]

fish,
i think its only a B+ in DS book coz of some minor safety flaws. (mind you these minor flaws can be a major pain in your maypoles). eg. mags in guns in safe zone, gun testing in safe zone, taking goggles off inside field, and hit calling w/ embeded cussing.

i personally was called hit w/ embeded cussing. and andy told me just take it. i also saw andy take his hit and the shooter kept yelling YOUR HIT!!! hehehe...


so yeah, i see where DS is comming from. no blame on organizers but quite frankly alot of the no-US were kids/noobs hence the flaws and the US for kicking ass.


for me, any day i get to shoot is a good day as long as the guys i roll with are good guys im happy...

[Stylin7]

My favorite part would be when we are clearing through the 2nd bldg.

Batman comes to a door..sees one tango, shoots the tango. The guy proceeds to try and find where the shots came from batman hits him again and tells him to put his kill rag on and that he is dead. Guy calls for medic... Batman takes out the medic. Someone asks "Where are they?". Medic proceeds to point down the hall past where we are and say "over there" . Batman yells "dead men don't talk". Medic says I didn't talk... Batman says "You pointed".. Medic proceeds to look like an azz because he didn't realize that we were in the building and he got busted for being a cheat.

[Batman]

Funny, that was my favorate part..... Odd that my favorate part was when I basicly got cheeted on by 3 guys, but then, it just meant I got to shoot all 3, multiple times ;)

[blitz]

since were talking favorite parts and dead man dont talk. mine excluding the RPG kills was....

blitzgun: brrrrrraatatatatat!
tango: HIT!

tango w/ kill rag: "about 50 yards to your left!"

blitzgun: BRARATATATATATAT!

tango w/ killrag: im allready hit!

blitzgunuser: your talking :D and by definition is that he is still alive.


was the blitzgunuser harsh? blitzgunuser was only trying to enforce the rules.

[CrazedAntelope]

After ending up in Valparaiso, a good 20 miles from the field at 8:00 in the morning, backtracking, getting lost again and finally finding the field and then parking 500ft from the entrance, I was starting to doubt that I would have a good day.

I went in, found some of the other WI guys, loaded my mags, grabbed my gear, and proceeded to pay. I got the correct change back and was told to remember to wear my paintball mask since I was under 18. Interestingly enough, that was the only enforcement of that rule that was ever done. I could have easily proceeded to put on shooting glasses if I had so chose; not something their insurance company would have been particularly happy about.

After the briefing, and the several safety mishaps that accompanied it (pointing a loaded gun in a safe zone full of people without masks, WTF!?), we all proceeded to go out onto the field.

The first hour or so of the game was boring; basically crouching in the bushes waiting for stuff to happen. I began to think the field would suck, but then things got interesting. We managed to destroy the AVN tank and capture the commander, during which I managed to take a long pricker through my uniform directly into my crotch. Yeah, that hurt. :cry:

The rest of the game proceeded as a series of attacks against the "Octagon". Apparantly, it was vital to our success as we attacked and defended it three different times.

The best part of the game by far was the fights for the barracks. The first battle, in which Batman grabbed my gun and pointed my noob-a$$ around, was exhilerating. Four of us were involved in a desperate gun-battle with the Russian advisors, which ended in Loofah and Batman being shot, and myself and Stylin being banged during our attempted evac.

The second fight involved me sprinting from the middle building to the third one under cover from a SAW and blitz's gas M4 in an attempt at flushing out the enemy who was behind it. I got into the building and ended up in a running gun battle with a dual-pistol wielding Venezualan. It ended in him getting mowed down by the SAW as he tried to engage me as I sprinted parallel to him through the building. I can't even remember a time when my adrenaline was pumping that fast.

All in all, I really enjoyed the game. I would most definately go back.

And if anyone was interested, I was 17 kills for 6 deaths. My best ever. :D

[Batman]

Haha - Good job dude! Your gonna be a hellova player when we're done with you!;)

[Loofah]

And HOW many people did we tie up with that takedown of one building? i heard 50ish-sure seemed like it! They werent happy finding 4 guys in there!

Yea DS i was taking a big step and decided to take cover right before i hit the door......yea thats it lol.

Yes the trench.....situation, was quite entertaining. And holding a squad of 15 for a while with Ghostbear was quite funny, until we got sandwiched. Again-not happy to find only 2 people tied up a lot of time. And they were 5 seconds late for a POW-i wouldve made Batman shoot me anyways.


Haha - Good job dude! Your gonna be a hellova player when we're done with you!
http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/4100/batmanwhutss4.jpg

[Batman]

Caption should say "Put that camera down before it winds up being surgicaly removed from your colin"

[Loofah]

buuuuuuuuuuuuuuut it doesnt:rofl:

Thanks Aron!

[A-Ron]

Caption should say "Put that camera down before it winds up being surgicaly removed from your colin"
Whats even better is the next picture that I would have taken was one of you grinning like you just got done eatin some nice.......

[Batman]

Lower Abdominal Area Of The Female Body.

[Loofah]

Dont talk about Mark that way. He has feelings too. on the tips.

[A-Ron]

Thats the abdomen????

I'd have to say the highs and lows of the day were pretty similar to what has been posted. What still floors me is when I was told to, "chill the hell out!" because a player had been shot by someone on shocker, and then relayed to his buddy that they were right inside the door, just give up. All I had simply said was "Dead men don't talk," very calmly and polite.

Heh.. Rolling out of the bushes only to be nearly crushed by the tank, yeah... That was my bad there.

The radio conversation between DS and I was priceless too....
-"Dude, where are you in _____ relat____ tank?!"
-"I hear it but I can't see it, I'm moving towards it now."
-"Just move___ tank and you____"
-My next thoughts were... Well that's helpful...
At this time I had a 249, trying to walk through those thorny neck high bushes that DS has mentioned already... Finally got sick of it, turned around and backed my way through the bushes only to find the tank right there!
Andy goes, "Your tank infantry now!!!" And the bronco takes off.... thupt thupt thupt thupt.... thupt.... BANG BANG BANG BANG your all dead.... (WTF!? That was more than 5 feet!.... Do you wanna get lit up by a 399 fps gun going full auto???)
thupt thupt thupt....

Pull into a structured area... FUUMPTTT!!!
SMACK!!!!
Tanks down!!!!

[Loofah]

Ah yes, Andy bang killing 4 guys with a LMG. hilarious:D

[seppuku]

The other quirk was the “We have strict rules for a reason”, to be followed with “We had a few guns chrony in at 405-410, but that’s okay, we’re not gonna let a few FPS too high ruin somebody’s day out here.”:jaw-drop: el....em....ay....oh.

Obviously he wasn't concerned about the people on the receiving end. :s



The field sounds very cool. Hopefully I'll get a chance to play there this year.

[Ghostbear]

Gotta say that the best part I had that day, aside from Loofah and myself keeping a whole slew of people heads down and belly dirty, was at the Octagon.

There was the big push to take the thing, then all the US just walked through and left it empty. Well, all but me, empty. ;)

I figured that since it was a key point for over two times before that we had to take it, hell I figured I would just keep it. So, I did. And was bored out of my mind for about 25 minutes until 5 guys walking out of the woodline decided to try to get it back. I shot all 5, which turned out to be 18 people. With their medic fixing them I racked up 36 kills in that one engagement. And yes, 36 is the number, I think I shot the same guy 8 times in that assault. And they didnt kill me in the building. There is one place in the building that you can watch all avenues of attack on one 180 of the building, and still be out of the main windows so you dont get hit. But, can see what is happening and slip into a shooting position without getting opened up. But, I had to bug out when I heard them saying something about cover fire and an RPG. So, I backed out the other door and kept the building between me and them. They were pissing SOOOOO many BB's at the poor EMPTY building. I kinda felt sorry for it. Someone got inside and I hear him yell "Theres no one in here!".

I ended up shooting one more person that stuck their head around the outer wall before they got me hiding behind a tree some 20 yards away.

When they walked over, they asked what happened to the SAW I was using? and where were the rest of the people that were in there with me?

It was all I could do not to laugh when I told them, it was just little ole me and no SAW, just midcaps and quick reloading.

That was my favorite moment.

[daemondog]

About that Trench incident.
Guys….ever see a big guy trying to run on all fours through a small trench with a crap load of tac gear on while being shoot at? Then having the same big dude jump around the corner and wrap his body around Aron legs in an attempt to avoid getting shot in @ss. It was just like watching a big baboon in multicam. By the end of the episode, I was on my back with my legs in the air with Aron standing over me with a grin. Downslide looked on, wanting to say something but was at a loss for words. At that point … I needed a cigarette.
The ironic thing about it was that it was my bright idea stroll down that part of the trench.
As for the rest of the trip, I learned a lot. For one….don’t eat at the Brat Stop. Not all bunny rabbits get along and I also learned what it takes to make 12 gallons of mayonnaise.

[daemondog]

...wtf?

[Batman]

Whoops, shoulda been in the vietnam game thread - DISREGUARD!

But it is a good example of how booring the desk officer possition is at work!!! (Yes, I was getting paid while I did that!)

[A-Ron]

...Then having the same big dude jump around the corner and wrap his body around Aron legs in an attempt to avoid getting shot in @ss. It was just like watching a big baboon in multicam....
I just think of how it looked to see you scurry back like that and can do nothing but sit laughing my ass off.

As for the rest of the trip, I learned a lot. For one….don’t eat at the Brat Stop. Not all bunny rabbits get along and I also learned what it takes to make 12 gallons of mayonnaise.
Thats why when I go on trips for airsoft, I try not to talk about things non-pertinent to airsoft, lol...
That or just turn on the selective hearing. ;)

[Professor]

Let me get this straight? There were mags in the guns and dry firing in the safe zone. There was a 5 foot instead of a 10 foot no shoot rule. There were obvious hits not being called. The dead conveyed tactical knowledge. The chronoing allowed guns "slightly" over. And there is some question regarding the cash box operation.

BUT, the field was awsome so most say they will go back....hmmm, interesting.

[Downslide]

Hence, the "B+" -- which I still feel was generous.

Prof, the field is really quite fantastic. I WISH we had a field like it in this state. I anticipate Carter's field (MAA) eagerly.

The field offers VERY good fort/bunker opportunities, with good cover that actually gives one a chance to take the bunkers. It offers decent vehicle usage..a good 4x4 can pretty much go everywhere, and there are roads and paths for anything else. AND it offers MULTIPLE, good quality building/structures for CQB work. All of this is contained in a playing area that isn't so spread out that you get exhausted going from one end to the other, but not so tight that you feel you are on top of everything. The field could really support a game up to 250 people, with the right kind of organization and about 15 OCs.

The problems you commented on are all "people based." Get MORE OCs, that have a clue, and all of that goes away. (except for the cash box, but hey...)

I said I would go back "for the right kind of game." That's the kind of game that I'm talking about.

[blitz]

Professor,
Unfortunately the majority of the players in that field comes from midwestairsofters.com and most of them are pretty new to airsoft. most of them also do not like the CAA.... well, most of them dont even know the CAA i should say.... Illinois sadly has broken down into alot of small groups and the CAA is one of them. The CAA used to do WAAs AEC counterpart but we stopped doing that after all drama BS hit the fan. one board led to another and we decided to make the CAA exclusive and cared less for the other groups . we do however (or at least I do), recruit individuals we meet on those public games who we feel has potential. dont get me wrong, Im not saying the CAA is better coz were not but we "tried" back in the day to promote safety but we became an ass for doing it, and that some say, theyre better OFF without the CAA. ive heared of hersays of some dude getting pissed coz he was told not to take his goggles of in the field....

so, you cheeseheads up there deserve a pat in the back for doing a good job on educating airsofters up there. ive been to lots of games up there and always enjoy playing.

the field HAS alot of potential thats why ive been trying (might happen) to do something exclusive there.


its funny about the cashier... i might have been a victim... i will talk to destro about it.

[Professor]

Blitz - Well, I can tell from the pictures even before the event that the field is indeed awsome. I would have loved to attend myself. It would have been great to see you and the other CAA leftovers. BTW, were's Flange?

What I really wanted to point out was the disparity in logic more than anything. I think the WAA has done a lot in pressing the need for safety up here. But, some of those same people who press for safety up here seemed to be brushing over the issues down there because the field is awsome. I don't see them really going off about how the rules and actions down there vary from the WAA safety rules and the lack of enforcement of whatever rules were defined makes them not want to attend events as they do regarding another more local field. I just wanted to point out the imbalance. Safety is safety regardless of the field.

DS - I noted your "ranking" and unserstood where it came from. I also noted your comment about the "right game" and understood what that meant too.

[Loofah]

I cant cry over milk i didnt see spilled. Be advised-i will be talking to people in charge down there next time i go-and i will relay the obvious issues.

That again-wont solve anything but me not being repsonsible anymore-as i will have spoke, but others listening is another matter.

[Professor]

Thats great Loofah. I appreciate that. I didn't see such actions being mentioned so I thought I should point out the disparity. Thanks

[blitz]

Professor,
I think Flange! is now associated w/ ECRR.

RE: safety.

players from st. louis and kansas have noticed these flaws. it was clear on the safety breifing.

having mags off the safe area is a matter of practicing over and over and that it will be ones natural instinct. goggles off in play area is another thing. i saw 1 guy on our side try to take his goggles off but i pointed out not to. i always try to tell someone even if i dont know them not to do things their not supposed to in any airsoft events. i did see opfors on the far end taking goggles off on thier way to regen i suppose...

i also saw "experienced" players from accross testing thier guns w/ mags IN the safe zone. i couldve yelled "dont do, that!" but i didnt, coz i was quite aware he/they were in a group of experienced players.

anyways, your input here are greatly appreciated. ill make sure destro notes it on his next event. i still feel somewhat guilty coz i keep on pushing you guys to come down here.

[A-Ron]

...
anyways, your input here are greatly appreciated. ill make sure destro notes it on his next event. i still feel somewhat guilty coz i keep on pushing you guys to come down here.
And I'm dam certain that myself will be coming down there again, just for a bit more of an organized game, lol.

I think the lack of experience was the biggest thing there, and while it sucked, it was just needed to be dealt with.
Luckily nothing happened in the safe zone or on the field, but if something did.... we all know what would have happened.

I had a great time, don't get me wrong, its just the little punks who don't really know what the game is about can really ruin it for all of us, or knock it down to that "B+" level.

[Ghostbear]

Wait, so hold on here, we go to a game two states away. And because we don’t explain the details of what we are thinking about doing PERSONALLY to convey our 'issues' to Destro about what we see as potential safety problems, we are in some way lacking in our approach to safety. What a crock of crap.

Ok, so then we should have heard from you on the items regarding that same local field you speak of (WGR) when there was shooting into the safe area due to boundries allowing it, or a lack of safety briefing that would tell people NOT to shoot into the safe zone in such a manner as to emphasize the importance of NOT shooting into it, or the many other items that have happened over the years on any number of fields here in the state. You posted no such 'plan of attack' on how or whom you were going to approach to tell of their caviler approach to safety. So, in fact you are 'more' guilty of this behavior than anyone else you speak of here. As you have never, in my recollection, stated your disparity between you having a problem with safety, and your not continuing patronage of that same field. More over, that even with your issues with safety at the WGR field, you continue to host games at it. Which follow the exact same rules you find fault with. That to me is not only hypocracy but insincere and disingenuous.

But, we now have to justify our actions to you. For this?

Congratulations, that is hypocracy in the highest level I have seen yet.

Nobody brushed over anything, your assessment of the situation is based solely on your ASSUMPTIONS. How dare you assume that nobody said anything to Destro, you have no idea what was said or not. Many didn’t, some talked to the people that did the dryfire, and what is it you anyway, you decided to drop out of the AEC committee rather than continue to assist and help with promoting safety in the game. So, for someone that quit helping, what logic do you use to start to accuse others when you yourself quit?

I guess your comments are typical, as you seem to go on these little jaunts when it suits you. I just wonder if the upcoming 'training day' is the reason for this little side trip into safety. When you yourself have done nothing visible to the rest of us in the addressing of the safety at your field of choice.

So, lets take a trip of our own, I will translate the Professor's commentary. Please follow along, this is the full quote of the meat of the matter:

What I really wanted to point out was the disparity in logic more than anything. I think the WAA has done a lot in pressing the need for safety up here. But, some of those same people who press for safety up here seemed to be brushing over the issues down there because the field is awsome. I don't see them really going off about how the rules and actions down there vary from the WAA safety rules and the lack of enforcement of whatever rules were defined makes them not want to attend events as they do regarding another more local field. I just wanted to point out the imbalance. Safety is safety regardless of the field.
Broken down it goes like this:

What I really wanted to point out was the disparity in logic more than anything. I think the WAA has done a lot in pressing the need for safety up here. But, some of those same people who press for safety up here seemed to be brushing over the issues down there because the field is awsome.
Translation: Disparity is the lack of equality between things. One of the key things is SEEMED. See, this little word gives him the ability to side step any argument like this one. As he said SEEMED, because he knows nothing of what happened, and knows nothing of what was done. But, he can level the aim toward us (the ones there) and take a shot, because if anyone says that he is wrong, then he can say, "well, it SEEMED like nothing was done, but I'm glad that something was...". And walk away smelling like a rose in all this, because he didn’t accuse anyone, it just SEEMED like nothing was done.

I don't see them really going off about how the rules and actions down there vary from the WAA safety rules and the lack of enforcement of whatever rules were defined makes them not want to attend events as they do regarding another more local field.
Translation: This one is a peach, the 'going off' part is to make you all think that some of the people that don’t play at the WGR field because of the constant safety problems we have seen over dozens of games is irrational, and that we are crazy for being vocal on those points. See, this line is to make those that want to play safe sound like we are the whacked out ones.

I just wanted to point out the imbalance. Safety is safety regardless of the field.
Translation: Prof doesn’t have much that is relevant to say here, so he will just take a parting swing and hope that it connects with someone. As Prof would like to point out the hyprocacy of the people that didn’t say anything about the organizer of this event but seem to have a problem with the local field that Prof is helping write the rules and safety for... But, honestly he doesn’t know what happened because he didn’t attend it, so he doesn’t know what we did or didn’t do, but if Prof can raise the question that he doubts that we did anything, someone will believe him and he will be the winner. Because, he just wanted to point out the imbalance that the WAA would show more contempt for safety violations on a WISCONSIN based field over one in Indiana.

Sorry for the rant guys, and girls, this honestly isnt the place for it, but rather than deleting Prof's post I felt that this one would refute his claims of a disparity in the assessment and conveyance of safety concerns to the organizer of the event. Now, if you wish to disagree, please make your comments factual and terse (thats short). :)

[daemondog]

As harsh as GB may sounds...I completely agree with his comments. I have no intention of adding fuel to the to potential flame war that may ensue but Prof your comment was out of line.

Members and non members of the WAA attended this game. For most of us, this was the first time being on this field. Although my friends who attended this game emphasized the negative aspects, it wasn’t that bad. I’ll be the first one to say that this was not the safest field I’ve played on…but I’m quite confident that host of this game will improve and I plan to play there again.

How do I know this…I personally spoke to the US commander (one of our hosts) throughout the game. HE WAS VERY receptive to what I had to say, and when possible… he made on the spot corrections. Now since this was my first time on this field…am I going to act like an azzhat and complain about EVERY safety/ rule infraction like some school hallway monitor? NO, I will not. That’s not how I operate. I’m mature enough to know that every region in the country has a slightly different style of playing airsoft.

On the other hand, when I attend a local field that I considered as my home field and I consistently see reoccurring safety/ rule infractions on a regular basis….I have no problem voicing my concerns. I have no problem in addressing issues that I’m concerned with. Hell, I’ve even had some my threads deleted on other forums because I address my concerns.

[Loofah]

I agree also-i just dont care what his comment's purpose was.

I wont be baited into it, and it was a bias thing to say. Next time someone spills milk in Indiana-someone better help clean it, or just go buy another jug.

[Professor]

GB, just to clarify a few things here -

1) I dropped out of the AEC committiee because our illustrious leader here "hung me out to dry" over a situation relating to the first AEC run in quite a while that I organized, but neither he nor any other experienced member saw fit to attend and help out on. Instead after it was over all he did was threaten to undermind an on the spot decision we made as a result of the volume of attendance to complete the process as best we could. That was all the thanks I got for trying, a stab in the back, great. You stick around after that. BTW, Timmay...you were there and part of the decision.

Oh, and let's not forget the annaul meeting after that AEC event where Timmay was voted in as Committee Chair and I presented a very thorough rewrite of the AEC to focus on safety and honor and less on marksmanship only to have it shelved at the meeting and never addressed again. Given that lack of consideration and my previous handling I felt that there was no need to serve inside that I'd be better off outside.

2) I am not helping to write the rules at WGR. I quite frankly feel he should adopt the AEC, regardless of what I may feel about its contents. I have told him on more than one occassion that his test is way too easy. I did offer to rewrite it to make it more difficult, however. On a side note as well, when he lowered the age limit I told him of my dissapointment. I didn't mind the beginners games as it gave the younger players a chance to get out and learn. However, I didn't think it was good for all the games to have a lower limit of 12.

3) In regards to organizing more games there. I bring my own OCs. During my events there are more OCs on the field than at any other time. Last event there would have been 4 if I had gotten back from California in time. Also, other than APOC what field can accomodate a game of that size. Oh, and don't forget you attend them GB.

Regardless, yeah...I took a pot shot. I read the thread and saw what I said. Its no different than the people who read the WGR posts and start their flame wars about safety issues without having been there. So, how does your own medicine taste?

Okay, now the cat is out of the bag. I intentionally pushed some buttons to try and get some people to see what they too have done in the past. Call me what you want. Yes, I too attend games at fields that have less then perfect safety records for all the same reasons others do. We don't have that many to choose from.

Yeah, I believe that this field is awesome and would have loved to have been there too. I just wanted to point out the "discrepancy", if you like that word better GB, in the comments perople were making and how they act in regards to a different situation. I do believe that people like Daemondog and others pointed out some of the issues and they will be "addressed" in some manner just the same as at other fields....some more than others. However, read the thread before my post and tell me my synopis wasn't on target - "there were some security concerns, but the field was awsome". That's how it sounded.

I apologize Blitz for having pulled you and your field into this. I am sure the field is awesome and the security concerns will and are being addressed. I too would love to play there some day...if I'm allowed;) It was just too good an example.

[A-Ron]

Without trying to start up **** here....

Who are we, the WAA, to step onto another STATE'S field (two states away mind you), possibly a whole different organizational run field (but this time it was not), and start pushing our rules of safety.
Yeah, mags in the safe zone with no barrel blockers is a bad idea, we all know that. I can't tell you how many people though stopped and told people, "Hey buddy, can you please take your mag out of the gun? It's just not a good idea."
Only to have them completely, whole-heartedly agree, and then take the magazine out.
But with 157 people, and probably 127 of them never playing any kind of organized airsoft game before in their life... It gets kind of hard, especially when people forget.

I'm sorry.. but how do we look if we waltz in and start pushing WI type rules on the field? How does it look when we pretty much go in and start telling the field what to do, or how to conduct their games.

Yeah they might have NO CLUE how airsoft works, or even care. But it leaves a pretty sour taste in my mouth when arguments start over things in another state that we ourselves have no control over.

Fields here in Wisconsin, yes thats our business which we should try and help change...
Fields in INDIANA, or futher out.... We should not be enforcing our rules when they already have some set in place.

No I am not saying that we should leave it alone and have them do what they want...
No I am not saying that (yeah throw this one at me if you will guys, I know one of you azzhats out there is going to do it anyway), I as the AEC Cmte. Chairholder approves of what happened there and agrees that we should not try and change it...

However, I am saying this is something we should try and work with them, the field owners and players, to try and bring their safety limits up to par with the rest of the MidWest.

It seems that we loosely have a same idea of safety throughout the MN, WI, and IL area... So all we have to do is politely work with the rest and see if we can help them become better.

[Downslide]

... However, read the thread before my post and tell me my synopis wasn't on target - "there were some security concerns, but the field was awsome". That's how it sounded.
.


Yes, Mark. the FIELD was awesome. THE PHYSICAL "FIELD". The topograpghy, the foliage, the structures, the layout, the size, the overall CHARACTERISTICS OF THE FIELD were awesome. In every post by people who were there, there is an underlying commonality that you are apparently missing. The "Field" was awesome, BUT there were issues AT the field that were worrisome. All of which were not caused by the FIELD, but instead were caused by some of the PEOPLE/ PLAYERS that came to play AT the "FIELD". These are things that were addressed BY A NUMBER OF US ASSUMED TO BE HYPOCRITES ON THE AEC COMMITTEE, separately and spread out throughout the day.

I don't understand how you can take the fact that all of us have said --but apparently not spelled out thuroughly enuf -- that the we liked the field but had issues with some people there.

I will go again. If I continue to see the things I saw, I will continue to comment. If no improvements are made BY THE PEOPLE WHO PLAY THERE, OR THE PEOPLE WHO MONITOR THE PEOPLE WHO PLAY THERE -- despite my voiced concerns -- I will cease playing there, like I have at other fields I have had issues with that don't seem to improve.

[Chief135]

That multicam looks pretty impressive. I've never really taken the time to google image it, thinking 'it's just another pattern.' But that stuff really is dead sexy.

[Professor]

A-Ron - You are absolutely right. We can't just walk in like a Bull in a china shop into other state's fields and try and shove our safety rules down their throat. We have to work with them.

DS - you too are absolutely correct about the "ASSUMED TO BE HYPOCRITES ON THE AEC COMMITTEE" comment. I really don't think that. My point is that some have in the past done the exact same thing and jumped into an AAR thread and assumed that safety issues were not addressed. My point exactly.

I just wanted people to feel the smack in the face of what it is like for someone who wasn't at an event to try and pass judgement on those who were. Like A-Ron said, we need to work more together than make assumptions and jump into someone's "stuff".

Hey GB, why do you jump down my throat publicly and don't with others when they have done the exact same thing?

[Downslide]

Hey Prof, why do you post just to START something? You just said
I just wanted people to feel the smack in the face of what it is like for someone who wasn't at an event to try and pass judgement on those who were. Like A-Ron said, we need to work more together than make assumptions and jump into someone's "stuff".

Why do that? Why encourage the very thing that you turn your nose up at? Why condone the process by providing yet another example of it? Why smack at somebody when there is no real reason to do it -- other than for the sake of doing it?

THIS is the stuff that keeps perpetuating the trash-talking/flaming/smacking that goes on here in the forums.

The synopsis of your posts show that your whole reason for posting was just to be an antagonizing jerk. Good for you.

[A-Ron]

That multicam looks pretty impressive. I've never really taken the time to google image it, thinking 'it's just another pattern.' But that stuff really is dead sexy.
Oh and boy does it eva work out man... It makes you almost ghost like

[Downslide]

That multicam looks pretty impressive....that stuff really is dead sexy.

Which is the whole reason I got it. I need all the help I can get! ;) :thatwasga

[A-Ron]

... I need all the help I can get! ...
I told ya man, the short bus comes around at like 2 pm... And your helmet was left on your bed for you!

[Professor]

I don't think you get it DS. My whole purpose of posting this was to show others who've done this exact thing what's wrong with it. Unfortunately, sometimes simply trying to tell someone this doesn't have any affect and you have to show them. I hope that this helps REDUCE all the "trash-talking/flaming/smacking that goes on here in the forums" by having shown what's wrong with it. If that makes me an "antagonizing jerk" in your eyes then so be it.

Back on with the AAR...


Hey Prof, why do you post just to START something? You just said

Why do that? Why encourage the very thing that you turn your nose up at? Why condone the process by providing yet another example of it? Why smack at somebody when there is no real reason to do it -- other than for the sake of doing it?

THIS is the stuff that keeps perpetuating the trash-talking/flaming/smacking that goes on here in the forums.

The synopsis of your posts show that your whole reason for posting was just to be an antagonizing jerk. Good for you.

[Downslide]

taken to PMs.

[A-Ron]

To put my final words up....

Destro, thanks for posting up the game, pretty much all of us there had a blast at Blast Camp.
Yeah there's a possibility of need for improvement, but thats with everything in life.
I'll be down there again no doubt, just not as frequently as I would hope.

Blitz, thanks for pushing for us to go down there. It was definately worth it just being able to see the field and use it.
Definite change of pace from what we have up here, and for such a low entry fee (comparatively), wow!

Take care everyone who was there, brush up your ub3r l337!!!! bush wacking skillzorz and we'll see ya there again!

[blitz]

hey no worries here. actually inputs are good and it just gave me an idea for the next "open" game.

give everyone rights to tell/yell/warn anyone they see violating safety requirements (eg. mags in gun in safe zone/ taking goggles off in play area). coz i know with our safety practices, it kills us looking at someone being an idiot.


now on to my AAR:

I arrived around 9am and immediately geared up. waivered and paid (sorta got confused w/ the change too). as we hit the field the US seemed to agree pretty quickly w/ channel assignments. what we did forget are squad callsign assignments :) (alpha, bravo, charlie). my squads mission was to take recon photos of the motorpool w/c is south of our FOB. Airborne of TMF took point and within 20 mins of our mission- THUP THUP THUP!!! we heared andys gun just about 100 yards west of us. half of our team started engaging, little did I realize we were within a 100 ft. north of the motorpool. ive sent a flanking team to the east and ended up in a radar tower w/ cache of weapons (WTF?).... those werent in our objectives but i told them to hold it for a while, just like that they were engaged. a few mins later got a call from the radio "WE GOT POWs!". by then i started to forget the fact that we were actually outnumbered.... i started snapping pictures to the back portion of the motorpool then i heared the ROAR of the tank... everyone ran for cover andy provided cover fire and i got the RPG ready. THUMP! tanks out!.... we pretty much sat in the same grid location for about an hr. w/c was a mistake, we shouldve pushed harder.... comms broke down, i couldnt figure out where batmans and GBs squad were. lil by lil we ran out of guys and then i was alone :)

i was literally standing inside green foliage under a canopy tree when i started popping the squad that got most of our guys (and they say multicam is not effective in green environment). after i got one guy i was receiving fire from a flanking squad just south of me but they were shooting nobody just about 20 ft. east of my position, mind you i WAS standing up. 1 guy popped 20 ft in front of me got nailed and i can hear heavy forces are moving towards me so i had to pull back.... after making a 100 ft sprint i stopped and turned in fear of being followed, and started to radio for backup but nobody was there (thanks guys). so i decided to make a trek back to base to reload and regroup. to my luck on my way to the base a 3 man team w/ no one covering thier 6 was on attack mode to our base- BANG BANG BANG! (bang killed all 3). next 100 ft. a 4 man squad- BANG BANG BANG BANG! (all 4 out!). then i had to stay put, coz i heared more noises on my east. to my luck someone from TFD called me on the radio and i told them we were being flanked. i sat there for 20 more mins and the call came that they had contact...long story short I lost commo on those bastards again. i sat there and decided to try to push back to our FOB and luckily i got back without any resistance. gave cobra commander my recon photos for the points...

that was my morning mission i should say and i had 10 mags on me (6 100 rnd mags and 4 70 rnd mags) and i still had 4 mags left.

the rest of the day was alot easier since we started to run as 1 big squad to push south. we took the octagon without a sweat, i barely used up any ammo. at the end of the day i probly shot 10 mags total (under 1000 rounds).

overall US did a hell of a job even being out numbered. and some questions were answered on the other boards. apparently the majority of the opfor were very disorganized. most wanted to paintsoft and disobeyed orders just to find action.... i feel bad for the other portion of the opfor coz i know alot of them worked and trained hard to do hardcore milsim and thier asses getting handed to them.

it was my pleasure and privilege to run w/ a bunch of great guys who knows what thier doing. til then next ass kicking!

[Ghostbear]

Wow,

Congratulations Professor, you have just proven everything that I wished you would prove. I was not sure that you were making the vocal stance to actually help in the safe play of airsoft, or just to take a whiz in people’s corn flakes. And I wasn’t so sure that you were going to just outright say it. But when you posted:

… I just wanted people to feel the smack in the face of what it is like for someone who wasn't at an event to try and pass judgement on those who were. Like A-Ron said, we need to work more together than make assumptions and jump into someone's "stuff"….
I was nearly floored, you finally admitted that the ONLY reason you posted that initial post was to piss people off, and that you didn’t care at all what actually happened, but just that you wanted people to feel the hurt. That rather than just let the prior conflict over the happenings at WGR just die which they did within 2 days of the initial post, you sat back and waited all this time just to push someone else’s face in it. Just for grins and giggles. To show them how it feels.

My God, are we still in high school? Didn’t we leave this petty crap back there? What are you Prof like 45 or 14 years old?

I just hope that people remember this moment, when you admitted openly that the post wasn’t based on making a point on safe game play, but simply to push ones face into the poop and make them smell it, just so they get the feel for it.

Thanks for making it clear that your posts should be read into deep enough to remove the overt and look for the covert. That you would make a mockery of safety to prove a point, and make people feel the ‘smack in the face’.

It is nice to know that your decision to start this was in no way related to actual safety. Thanks.

[Professor]

I guess you too miss my point here GB. But that's okay. I didn't do it for grins and giggles as you say.

I did it to illustrate that it isn't just a special few who share a common concern for safety. They don't hold some special gift of safety concern. We all want the same thing but some don't seem to think so.

You think you have the skill to cut through my messge and distill the "real intent". Well, maybe not. You think I would "make a mockery of safety to prove a point, and make people feel the ‘smack in the face" not quite. Its deeper than that. Quite the opposite. The thread did indeed read as if "there were some safety issues, but hey the field was awsome...". My post was the proverbial "kill multiple birds with one stone" - highlight the safety issues, contrast the perspectives of one field versus another and illustrate the wrongness of judging in absence.

I guess the meaning was too deep for you.

Now, lets end all public aspects of this conversation as it seems to not have any more relevance or benefit. It seems to fall on deaf keyboards anyway. If you want PM me.

[Ghostbear]

But Prof,

You didn’t do any of that...

You didn’t highlight the safety issues, you showed distain for those that attended because they didn’t describe their plan to inform Destro on the issues they did see or their implicit communications of what they did do when at the field. That didn’t put a highlight on the issues, but a spotlight on the people.

You also didn’t contrast the perspectives of one field vs another, you posted that you thought it was 'interesting' that anyone would consider returning to a field that had mags in their guns in the safe zone, and a 5 foot no shoot rule and bad hit calling, along with the other concerns, some of which werent even safety related (as in the dead relaying tactical information to living players and the cashbox). How does this contrast the perspectives of the two fields? If anything it could relate to the contrast of the two organizers, but still that is a very weak and questionable connection at best. The only contrast that I could possibly relate to this would be to compare the single game of Blast Camp to an ongoing multiple year, dozens of games, history of this other field and the continued lack of implementation of harsh penalties for consistant bad behavior or safety violations. So, you are contrasting the effect of one game with a small number of attendees to dozens of players over dozens of games, if this is the contrast then we will need to have dozens of games at Blast Camp prior to a contrast of this nature to be valid. So, I'll let you know when that happens, and we can dig up this discussion again.

And illustration of the wrongness of judging in absence. Ok, this one is hard to convey, your illustration for the display of the wrongness is, in fact, to be wrong yourself and do the exact same thing that you are attempting to illustrate. Am I the only one that feels this is a silly way to point this out? I mean maybe I am, but I just cant wrap my head around pee'ing in the pool to illustrate your criticism of people that pee in the pool.

Would it not have been more simple or to the point to ask something like the following rather than seemingly jump into the fray and make oneself as bad or worse than that which you are attempting to illuminate?

A simple question like:

With the safety issues, did anyone talk to Destro and let him know about them?

And that is all that would have been needed to determine the extent to which any of the players had persued the issues. And more to the point not have this 'discussion' occur. But, then again, I tend to be more to the point and not as PC as some tend to think I am. I figure asking the question would at the very least have given you the answers you so wished to highlight, and at the same time allow for not having to reduce oneself to being wrong to illustrate being wrong. Especially when the prior wrong isnt even remembered nor cared about, aside from a very small few.

But your right, this conversation is best suited to be done over a glass of Glenfiddich Single Malt and a good cigar. So, I will wait until such time as a suitable venue exists to continue this conversation. Which probably wont even be remembered at that time. but, who cares with a glass of Glen and a 5 Vegas.

:)

[Professor]

To all of you who were put off by my attempt to highlight some issues in my odd sort of way I apologize for my execution. This seemed like just the right thing to do at the time. I do not apologize form my reasoning just my execution. As GB said, why piss in the pond when I'm mad at others who piss in the pond?

Who knows, maybe it helped in some small way...I'll crawl back into my hole now.

[seppuku]

It seems like this has settled down, but I want to be explicit and state that any more posts not specifically pertaining to this event will be deleted/edited. I hope everyone has made their point, but please feel free to send me a PM if you have any concerns.

[Downslide]

I like toast.






@ Blast Camp.

[Loofah]

That was the only good use for the propane anybody brought.

[A-Ron]

Thisthss one time... at Blasth Camp... I saw Andy wasthee a lotta guythsssssssss witsh histh SUPA '60 SNIPAA!!!!!

And I got almost got run over by a big truck, and a big Hawaiian guy tried to pass through me all ghost recon like!

[Destro]

First off I would like to thank everyone from WAA (and the whole state of WI!) who came down to our game.
I also want to thank those who took the time to point out safety concerns during the day. We also are looking for constructive critisism for all aspects of our games.
Yes I understand there were some problems and safety concerns- we certainly take all safety concerns to heart and will do what we can to implement a solution in future games. We are still learning how to run and host game- this was our 4th game we have hosted. There were a lot of new kids out there, I saw a number of infractions of goggle removal on the field and those were addressed. Dry firing/shooting in the staging should not be done and we will work on policing that better. Mags in the safe zone is another big one.

I think we are going to up our no shoot zone to 10'. The problem is in the buildings there will always be shots closer than 10'...

There were other issues- during the brief (I gave it) the gun in question I used for demonstration was not loaded. I had discharged all the gas from all my mags and had not reloaded- I still probably should have dropped the mag, just to be clear.

We are working on making our games the best we can.

As for the questionable change- I have mentioned the issue to BC management. We (Cobra) do not handle any of the money, but I did bring it up to the owner of the field. I have also asked that we get a ref for the staging area all day. We (Cobra) do not have the manpower to OC a game as well as police the staging area all day.

That is all I have for now. We are still learning and do want to have a SAFE place to play. We have an awesome field and do not want any issues to cause us to loose it!

~Destro
(Kevin)

[A-Ron]

Thanks for the information Destro, good to know that some of what we've said / stressed has already been noted and is working on being implemented.

Only thing that I can say...

I think we are going to up our no shoot zone to 10'. The problem is in the buildings there will always be shots closer than 10'...

With something like that, make it be known that once you enter a building, shiz can and will hit the fan, and stuff will happen that is uncontrollable. It's just like going to any CQC game where they say "no firing under 10 feet" and then you walk by a door and get lit up from two inches. It's going to happen and just make it known.

Once you step back out onto the field / shooting out of a window or the such, make it known that that 10 foot engagement distance is back in effect. Firing under that ten feet will not be tolerated and there will be ___ as a consequence for violating a rule.

We all understand how hard it is the first few times, and all in all we had an awesome time, err at least the guys I rolled with did ;)

[Destro]

A-ron,

Thanks for the input. Sounds like a reasonable solution, that way those who are afraid of getting shot up close and personal can just avoid the buildings. There is plenty of other field out there for them to enjoy.

I also wanted to mention WHY we as the game promoters were running the two teams. The first 3 games we had a really hard time finding anyone to do it. I had to beg and plead for people to command each side. Most people would rather run and gun. Other games have been run this way so we figured we would try it. It was not about unbiased play- we were in constant communication with each other to keep you guys engaged (hopefully!) in some fun firefights... The battle for the octagon went on most of the day because we both kept sending squads to hold it. It worked out fairly well although I believe next game we will do it a bit differently- we are going to have one of our team members command each side rather than ourselves. Only two of us write the scenarios so they will only know the orders/mission objectives for thier team rather than those of us who wrote the scenario calling the shots. We will again ask for volunteers to command...

Also when administrative duties called us away (injury on the field) both commanders were gone for 10 minutes or so- then I was away for another 15 minutes as well... We as the "head refs" need to be out on the field more in our orange vests.

Cheers!
~K

PS- I will be posting details on our next game in a few...