AAR: "Search and Destroy" 6-24-07

[Dover]

REBELS RULED! Thanks to Gary and family, Dave included, for setting up a kick arse game today! I hope everyone that made it out had as good a time as I did. The traps added an element to the game that toyed with the American's minds. Almost discuraging them from pursuing the rebels into the woods.

Good game all. We definatly need to do something like this again. Maybe the Americans could be alitte more aggresive though.

[Sweinster]

Yes, despite not feeling well (wasn't a heat-related issue) and having some gun problems, today was alot of fun. Although we (Americans) couldn't do much, I got my share of kills and everything went smoothly, I saw no honesty issues as far as calling hits, everyone was safe, yet still had alot fun. Thank you Gary and Family for the game and for the use of the field! I had fun today, I think everyone did. :)

-Sweinster

[Ben]

REBELS RULED! The traps added an element to the game that toyed with the American's minds. Almost discuraging them from pursuing the rebels into the woods.

eh..I think it was more the fact that if we died, we knew we would have to sit out the rest of the round. I think that did more to discourage us from being more offensive.

[T-Square]

I saw a few cameras, I better see some pictures soon. It'd be pretty cool.

[Agent_p90]

I did not like the respawn rules very much, I would often get shot by a stray bb early in the game - I had to sit out for a long time.
I didn't get to play much so I suppose I'm a little sour ;)
I like being on the offense more often, but I wouldn't want to risk sitting out for at least 20min and I'm to impatient for camping.

Also I thought the traps were a good idea.

[Ameoba Grande]

The traps worked really well i thought. But, the last phase i think when the U.S. were going to attack the field. I came outa the safe zone and got hit by my own teammate.... not saying any names. Overall it was fun.

[Ben]

pics pics pics?

[Cleric]

I had a great time playing on the rebel team, even though we had to wear civilian clothing and could not use radios. We still dominated.

I think the American side lacked a little tactically, or else people were not listening to those who were trying to use sound tactics. Walking down the open field at the start of the game was a big invitation to get ambushed, and that's what happened. The rebel team was spread out in groups of 2 and 3 players, plus the Americans had 8 more players, so the American side should have been more effective. The rebels had the same respawn rules: once shot out you did not come back until the next phase. Even though we were outnumbered, the rebels had the advantages of surprise and the booby traps. Maybe those were too great of advantages.

Now who has some pics?

[Ameoba Grande]

half the american team would get knocked out if someone stepped on a mine. That would be around 6 people out, without eveing getting in a firefight.

[Agent_p90]

Lets not forget that one round when the whole american team was getting shot at in the safe zone. ;)

[Doc]

Lets not forget that one round when the whole american team was getting shot at in the safe zone. ;)


What???

[Ameoba Grande]

yea that wasnt fun

[Jun Wen]

The safe zone or respawn/waiting site?

[A-Ron]

Lets not forget that one round when the whole american team was getting shot at in the safe zone. ;)
All the more reason I almost never take off my eye protection.

[Loofah]

Sounds unsafe. How was this even allowed to happen?

Somehow i doubt ill get a response anyways.

[garyb]

If you are going to write an AAR please use the correct terminology so poeple who were not at the game would not get confused.

[Loofah]

Didnt think so.

[dan13]

I thought you were NEVER supposed to take off your eye protection.

[A-Ron]

In designated "safe zones" you are allowed to take off your eye protection because the area is suppose to be safe.

In this case, it sounds like (don't quote me on this) Agent_P90 accidentally mistook "safe zone" for a "regen/respawn" area. So in that case... NO you are NOT suppose to take off your eye protection because those areas are usually on the field.

[Loofah]

Thats why its called a SAFE zone?


1.-secure from liability to harm, injury, danger, or risk: a safe place.
2.-free from hurt, injury, danger, or risk: to arrive safe and sound.
3.-involving little or no risk of mishap, error, etc.: a safe estimate.
4.-dependable or trustworthy: a safe guide.
5-careful to avoid danger or controversy: a safe player; a safe play.

[Downslide]

half the american team would get knocked out if someone stepped on a mine. That would be around 6 people out, without eveing getting in a firefight.


This is why you need to SPREAD OUT. Walking in a group, all bunched together is how you get popped by a mine, IED, booby trap, or even one guy with a SAW. keeping your patrol or squad spaced out, at least 6-10 feet apart, in a staggered line will cut down on the collateral losses.


Lets not forget that one round when the whole american team was getting shot at in the safe zone. ;)


Seriously...can we get a CLEAR confirmation of where exactly this happened? Was it at the respawn base? or actually IN the "SAFE ZONE?"

[Professor]

FYI, there was no shooting into the safe zone during the time I was there until about 2pm that I am aware of. If it happened it happened after I left or I missed it all together. I think he used the wrong term "safe zone" and meant something else. I do remember one time in which the US forces were entering the field from Tower 1 and got shot up.

Now, if P90 has something to feel guilty about then that is a whole nother thing? If there was fire into the safe zone and he knows of it and didn't either report it or try to interupt it then he should fess up and realize it's not something to "wink at" as his use of smiley indicated.

Downslide, it didn't matter how close you were...part of the scenario rules wiped out an entire squad if one person set off a booby trap.

[dan13]

The way the rules were put out was that if one of the squad stepped on a mine then the rest of the squad was supposed to evac him back to the base. Yes it took out the entire squad, but I think it was supposed to respresent how a real life US squad would treat their wounded.
As for the regens, I saw people being send back into the game after they came back to the safe zone, so no one had to sit longer then several minutes, unless they wanted to.

[Ben]

THIS is what happened. The entire US team (which I and Agent P90 were a part of ) was about to leave the safe zone at the west exit to start the game. Right at the exit, the terrorist team started firing at us. We all had our eye protection on. I wouldnt say it was as bad as my team mate made it sound, but it was borderline. It was more cheap than dangerous IMO.

[A-Ron]

There ya have it folks, case closed...

That has happened a lot before, and honestly that west wing of the safe zone is a bit close to the field. Its no different than people at the hotel firing south towards the safe zone when players are trying to overtake the hotel.

[Loofah]

So its excuseable. Gotcha.

[Downslide]

So its excuseable. Gotcha.

uh...right, exactly. "got it covered." Yashureyoubetcha. ;)

[Professor]

Uh, I disagree...it's not excusable nor should it be brushed aside if they were in the safe area at the time of the event. The people who fired should be told it is NOT appropriate to fire into the safe area at any time.

Now Aron's point I think is that fire goes in that direction in some situations, but it should NEVER be allowed that any fire should be "intentionally fired into the safe zone". Shooting from the hotel at enemy aproaching from the South does create a situation where fire is headed at the safe zone and players are told not to stand at the gate or on the hill directly next to the safe zone barriers for that reason. If it was as they teams were entering the field then that falls into a grey area and regardless really shouldn't be allowed as the intended direction of fire is at the safe zone.

In any case...do NOT fire at or into the safe zone/area! It is possible that players either do not have eye protection on. There should not be any ambushes set up at the edge of the zone as players are entering the field.

[dan13]

I can not believe you people, I played at this game,had a good time, saw no safety problems.
Seems like the only people making an issue here are the ones that were not at the game.
If you were not at the game why dont you get a life, Where do you get off saying all of these bad things with out any personal knowledge?
As for the west gate I believe there is a 100' zone were no people are before you get to the safe zone, then they are building blocking that area from the safe zone, seems safe to me.
AAR's are for people with knowledge of the game not for people with nothing better to do then sit around on the key board and bash people.

[Ameoba Grande]

i believe if one person in your squad stepped on a ied the entire squad would have to go back to the safe zone. Even if they werent by you.

[Loofah]

D13-I dont have to be there to know what happened was a stupid act.
Also-you cannot see everything that happened all day and be on every area of the field at once-just because you didnt see it, doesnt mean it didnt happen.
Why dont you just settle down before you piss off the wrong people.

[A-Ron]

I can not believe you people, I played at this game,had a good time, saw no safety problems.
Seems like the only people making an issue here are the ones that were not at the game.
If you were not at the game why dont you get a life, Where do you get off saying all of these bad things with out any personal knowledge?
As for the west gate I believe there is a 100' zone were no people are before you get to the safe zone, then they are building blocking that area from the safe zone, seems safe to me.
AAR's are for people with knowledge of the game not for people with nothing better to do then sit around on the key board and bash people.
Whoa buddy, calm down... Lay off one of the cans of Coca-Cola a day or something. Your blood pressure is rising to fast.
I hate to tell you some of the people posting here have been playing since you thought that girls were icky. We have quite the knowledge of "the game", and safe play of "the game". Just because we wern't there for ONE GAME doesn't mean we don't know a bad idea when it happens.

...The people who fired should be told it is NOT appropriate to fire into the safe area at any time...
I'm going to step a thin mofoin line here and say I'm sure it was not intentional.
I myself have been lit up over on that west gate, and I'm sure most of us have.
Problem is, and Gary please don't take this as a hit on your field, the field is constructed like that. The safe zone is right off of the field, which means when people come back into the game, they are RIGHT IN THE GAME, and there is no way to stop it unless the people leaving the field are instructed to go back to a regen spot with their kill rags on their head (yeah, ya know that red rag that every field requires you to have, but almost none of you have or use, then complain about when you get shot at when you are dead) and then resume play.

[dan13]

Why are you the wrong people? I gues only your opinion is the right one.
From what I have seem of your posts you are the one who should get a life.

[A-Ron]

Alright, enough with you trying to show your arrogance of being young yet.... Back on with the AAR.

Does anyone have any pictures? I'm curious to see how the field is "filling up" with foilage...

YES!! FOILAGE!!!

[Loofah]

AAR's are FOR the people that werent there, as well as ones who were. Its for thanks, pros, cons, and info such as unsafe play that should be learned from. Its not for only the "people with knowledge of the game not for people with nothing better to do then sit around on the key board and bash people." as you so intelligently put it.

Ive been playing airsoft for about 6 years now-I know plenty enough.
If you attend an AEC-make sure you tell me who you are so i can give you the extra attention you want, when i TEACH it.

Just settle down, theres more than eyes on here than youd ever think. You cant make everyone happy, but spouting off isnt going to help anything either.

[dan13]

my age has nothing to do with the fact that I can see what is happening on this forum.
as for eyes on me, I think those eyes are yours and from what I have heard about you......., never mind

According to the WAA rules I thought making threats were allowed on the forums, maybe rules are made for some and not for others?
I have nothing more to say.

[A-Ron]

...
According to the WAA rules I thought making threats were allowed on the forums, maybe rules are made for some and...
ASSUMING you meant "weren't allowed on the..."

Who made a threat? Why was one made? Who was it made against?

He said hes going to teach you a few more things than the rest so you realize whats going on in airsoft.
Be it your age or not, your still pulling this, "Eff off, You wern't there you have no right to say anything," and, "I heard about you so I don't have to listen to anything you say." That right there shows your not willing to learn or take others advice to easily man, and believe it or not, thats whats going to make or break you in this sport and life.

[Downslide]

my age has nothing to do with the fact that I can see what is happening on this forum.
as for eyes on me, I think those eyes are yours and from what I have heard about you......., never mind

According to the WAA rules I thought making threats were allowed on the forums, maybe rules are made for some and not for others?
I have nothing more to say.


Alright you little whelp...go lay down by your dish now. I don't see anybody making threats. In fact, other than a little sarcasm, no one was being edgy or cruel until you opened the pie hole under your zit packed nose. You have NO idea what you're talking about, nor apparently the points that are trying to be made by the "more-veteran-than-you" players in this thread.

EDIT: I am sick of the lack of respect that teeny boppers show for their elders and seniors-of-experience, both in person and online--where it is far worse. We have ALL played at the field in question numerous times, and have all been in the same or similar situation. We know how it happens, where it happens and why it happens---the why is usually a hyped-up little paintsofting whelp how has little knowledge of -or worse- respect for the boundaries of the field and the allowance for maintaining those boundaries.

That end of the safe zone is an awkward situation for the field owner. He can't really put a wall up because he has occasional need/want for a vehicle on the field-- both for play and maintenance of the field. A temporary edifice --that's a big word for building or structure ;) -- would be difficult to put up as well... So its really more in the HANDS OF THE PLAYERS to be RESPONSIBLE ENOUGH not to shoot into the safe zone.

Apparently that gets missed alot.

[Loofah]

So you are tough enough to talk back to older experienced players.
Apparently what you hear about me is made by people that dont have the balls to turn away me and my money, or say it to my face.

Nobody threatened you-If you take what i said as a threat, you need to study harder in school.

In additon-you are a passive agressive child, that seeks reactive attention on a internet forums-and i need to get a life? Thats a good one-this kids funny i like him!

[Professor]

Uh...can anybody say time out? Now everybody go back to your respective corners and after you have had a time out we'll have a group hug :D


Whoooshaw....say it, whoooshaw. Oh, and rub your ear lobes at the same time.

[A-Ron]

Its... gooossefraaabbaaaaa

[Maple]

Whoooshaw....say it, whoooshaw. Oh, and rub your ear lobes at the same time.
Bad Boys 2?

[Batman]

Now, I wasn't at the game, but I have played there, so I hope that "dan 13" will give me his blessing to post my opinion, but what if at future events, we propose a "no man's land" around the safe zone. We can always get that cheep plastic pink tape & put a 75 ft area around the gates that "live" players may not use. This would limit the angles of attack on positions like the Hotel I know, but would also cut down on the "need" to shoot towards the safety zone.

Thoughts?

[Agent J]

I'm not a legal adult yet, but I think I can pull off expressing a civil opinion (this is NOT a hit on Batman or anyone, just saying that I'm not at the level of everyone else in the discussion).


I personally think that would be a good idea, Batman. While I've never actually been hit moving into or out of the safe area, the nearby areas have always made me a bit uncomfortable. All we need is for some immature little #$@! to crouch down a couple feet away from the entry behind a tree and spray half a team as they step out. That'd be real fun. As has been said, the terrain of the field makes it a bit harder to actually control something like that, but I think Batman's solution would work well.

[Maple]

Now, I wasn't at the game, but I have played there, so I hope that "dan 13" will give me his apparent blessing to post my opinion, but what if at future events, we propose a "no man's land" around the sfae zone. We can always get that cheep plastic pink tape & put a 75 ft area around the gates that "live" players may not use. This would limit the angles of attack on positions like the Hotel I know, but would also cut down on the "need" to shoot towards the safety zone.

Thoughts? (From the adults please)
I agree with your idea. It would be good idea for a field (not just Gary's) that doesn't have a netted off safe area (like APOC has) to try and limit "safe zone firings" by, at minimum, establishing a no-fire zone that would reduce, if not eliminate, angles of fire into the already established safe zone.
But, bear in mind, it is up to the players, just as much as the field owner, to help make sure incidents like that described above (I was not there, so I only know what was posted here) do not happen. A field owner can do this that ans the other, but it is also up to the players to make sure that they are playing safe.
Just my opinion, and we know how much that counts...... especially since I have been trying to ruin airsoft in WI for years. :o

[Professor]

It seems like a good idea there Batman. I do however wonder how it would affect the use of the tower 1 area. Otherwise, I don't see any real challenge on the side closest to the hotel.

I think the best ideas are the net and the players...but one depends on the owner to implement and pay for and the other...well, you know, depends on mature players. ;)

I would imagine that BBs coming from the hotel towards the south would be traveling at a very slow fps by the time of reaching the safe area, but the west side entrance does create a challenge when playes attempt to catch other players as they enter the field. The later should be defined as a "do not do rule" until players reach a certain point onto the field.

But hey, this is just a discussion and search for possible resolutions to a potential unsafe condition that the owner can take into consideration and decide how or if to implement.

That's my two cents...oh, and Maple, I wouldn't say "ruin"...maybe "alter" :wide-eyed (that was said in pure jest)

[Maple]

That's my two cents...oh, and Maple, I wouldn't say "ruin"...maybe "alter" :wide-eyed (that was said in pure jest)
Alter, for the worst, hence the use of the word ruin. (Once again, a dollar to anybody who can name the source of the quote.

Netting around a safe area is the best possible solution for any field, save for common sense being used by the players, but is an expensive option. Since all fields do not have the same bank roll (APOC makes a boat load from Paintball, hence their high purchasing power), taping off an area, even if it limits what were once bunkers/ obstacles, is a cheap solution to help make a game safer.

As I have been rarely seen at public games over the last year, I can only go off what I read or hear from folks that go to the public events (no, I am not singling out any one field). It seems that safety continues to need to be addressed, especially as the last few years have seen an influx in new players. Often new players do not know what some of the rules mean and fail to ask. This in turn leads to safety problems, which then have to be addressed after the fact. Unfortunately, safety classes and AECs can only do so much, so it is my feeling that both field owners and veteran players (and I don't mean only those players over 25yrs old, I mean folks who have been playing for awhile) need to become more proactive and try to nip the behavior before it causes a problem.

[Ghostbear]

My bad guys, if you were trying to post into this thread in the last few minutes. I pushed it over to the Post Event section, which is closed to new postings.

So, I moved it back to let you all finish the conversation.

Sorry. Was a bit too eager to get the events section cleaned up.

[Agent_p90]

Who took those pictures?

[Agent_p90]

THIS is what happened. The entire US team (which I and Agent P90 were a part of ) was about to leave the safe zone at the west exit to start the game. Right at the exit, the terrorist team started firing at us. We all had our eye protection on. I wouldnt say it was as bad as my team mate made it sound, but it was borderline. It was more cheap than dangerous IMO.

Yeah that is exactly what I was meaning - sorry for the confusion.

[Renshai]

Guys, this got out of hand. To be fair, people were being condescending to Dan - which happens a lot. He had the right to get upset. And just because he got upset doesn't mean we should light him up and flame all over him. He's right, we weren't there. That much is clear. But we all know the type of stuff he's talking about. And as someone said, that was a lack of common sense by the attacking team. A dumb move. I support Batman's idea of having a "no fire zone" around the safe zones. Simply through circumstance, Gary doesn't have the same type of "bb-insulation" as Apoc and some other places lining his safe zone, much the same way that Kerrick's field didn't this past weekend. On fields like these, maybe we could mark off an area of "goggles on" at the border of the safe zone, then tape off the AO another fifty feet out and declare a player out of play if he's in the area between the tape.

[Kerrik13]

I would like to remind everyone to stay courteous and considerate to each other... flaming each other doesn't help. Dan13, I would advise you to take the advise of the more veteran people that have played a lot of games and who take active roles in teaching safety throughout the state. I agree that a bunch of us weren't there, but like other people have said, plenty of others have been to a lot of games and know the field and/or situations.

The game this last weekend I hosted had nothing but a line of pink tape seperating the playing field and the safe zone. The field was private hunting land owned by my aunt and uncle, so everything set up had to be temporary (and cleaned up afterwards). The maturity and common sense level of the players allowed the game to go off rather well with just pink tape seperating the playing area and the safety/camping zone. Public games are a bit harder to watch and will always be an issue... but field owners and players can do the best they can and that will help in most situations.

[Cleric]

I was at the game on the rebel side. If the phase in question here was the second to last where the rebels were defending the open field and the Americans had to push us out, then I am the guilty party who opened up on the Americans. As far as I know, I was the only one firing at them, and I was aiming in line with tower 1. I purposely waited to open fire until the Americans were well out of the safe area. The game had been declared as “on” well before the American players started walking out of the safe area. Personally, knowing that the rebels could be anywhere in the open field, as an American I would not have been as lax as they were, walking in a tight group and not even looking for the enemy. If they had been paying attention, they would have easily spotted me before I fired. Perhaps I am wrong, but I feel that if a game is on, and you walk out of the safe area, you should be ready to fight.

I think tall netting around the safe are would be great, but that is up to Gary, unless someone can make a nice donation ;) . Although I don’t feel I used “cheap” tactics, in the interest of safety I will be less aggressive in that situation in the future.

[seppuku]

Well, it looks like I missed fun smack-talking. :( This fun-governor just hasn't had as much time to troll lately. :busted_re

In any case, all unpleasantries aside, there looks to be some good discussion about "sealing off" safe areas and general field awareness. I'm moving this thread to the AAR section. Please continue....

[Kerrik13]

Perhaps it best for everyone to chill out and see the better side of this conversation... I know that numerous fields have this concern; how to make the safe zones safe but not spend a million dollars doing so.

At the Merrimac field, it is my parents land... so we don't even have tape or anything set up because the people are told when they arive where the boundaries are. It is field that requires common sense more than others and it has worked out fine for years. Of course I don't have the challenges that Apoc, Airsoft Battle Zone, and the Wargame Field have with dealing with public games... which I believe makes all the difference.

[Agent_p90]

still no pictures!! WHERE THEY GO!:thatwasga

[ckosacranoid]

i have som pics from sunday that i took but i do not have the dics in here when i got online. i will post them on monday when i get the chace to get to my laptop at the college.
i have 8 pics so it does not show much though.

[ckosacranoid]

here are the pics i said i would get up yesterday.


http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/sacranoidclub/album?.dir=841ere2&.src=ph&store=&prodid=&.done=http%3a//pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/sacranoidclub/my_photos

it not much but i was more thring for a frind of mine and myself. but at least it some pics.....