Zombies!

[Kerrik13]

Work is steadily progressing towards an event, slated for later this year, on a resident evil themed zombie game. Does anyone have any input as to what they would like to see at an event like this?

The storyline is obviously horror based, with some tension being added to the player by having strict ammo controls for the game. Instead of laying waste to zombies with immense stockpiles of ammo, players may have a pistol, maybe a shotgun, or (if they are lucky) an assault rifle with a few magazines. Ammo must be conserved or else you just might run out...

As far as rules go, I think that if some standardized CQB rules were followed for a game like this, then close range shots will not become a problem. That way everyone pads up with some layers and knows about some sort of full face protection ahead of time.

The main dilemma in an event like this are the zombie masks; I've been testing out some ideas of doing cut-down versions of latex masks, green sickly colored balaclavas, or just veil-style netting with blood spattered on it.

I would really like some input and ideas from the general public about a game like this... if they can run Op: BioHazard in California and (I think) New York, then there is no reason an event like this can't happen in Wisconsin :)

EDIT:
This topic has been discussed a few times, but it has grown dust in the Past Events Held section. I wanted to revive it in the Event Ideas section.
To read some of the former discussions on a zombie style event, here are some links...

http://wiairsoft.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1542&highlight=Zombies

http://wiairsoft.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1575&highlight=Zombies

http://wiairsoft.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1539&highlight=Zombies

[Agent J]

I'd love the chance to air out my el-cheapo shotgun.

Hmm . . .can't use contact weapons for the survivors, that would lead to too much arguing.

I think we can do without grenades; I see their use as being rather limited, and perhaps more irritating than necessary.

Zombie hit rules: anywhere is a kill; head hunting leaves no one happy, even if it is more "realistic"

I don't know about the zombies though. If we limit them to 10 foot BANG kills or worse, contact, then I don't think they'll last too long unless ammo is REALLY restricted. Too much visibility. Maybe a night game would work better. It would also add to the horror element.


Possible game types:

Deathmatch (Players respawn as zombies upon death, last player is the pwn)

Snatch-and-run (get the scientist or item in the middle of the zombie base to the insertion point)

FLEE! (x number of survivors have to make it to an extraction point)

Hunting time (survivors have to kill y number of zombies)

Combinations (e.g. Hunting Time + FLEE)


Perhaps the zombie element could be added into another game. (That would make an AWESOME surprise twist). Here's how I see it.

PART 1 Team A has to storm the science facility guarded by Team B and retrieve a captured scientist or something. Standard rules, both sides have unlimited ammo.
PART 2 But once they grab the scientist, Team B turns into zombies because of a released virus and Team A has to flee to their insertion point.

Other complications may be in order as well during Part 2, e.g. adding a third team of Mercs who are against Team B and Team C, who are trying to get the scientist/item/whatever from Team A


That's about the extent of my input for now. Of course, it goes without saying that zombies have to have some serious advantages to stand a chance against people with guns and "aim for the head" is not necessary.

Oh, interesting idea: zombie dies, lies down, counts to 30 (SLOWLY!) and is alive again. That would really add to the relentless horde thing. And the survivors can't camp the respawning zombies. Besides, that would drop their ammo supply real fast.

[Jun Wen]

When the weather gets getting I was planning on gathering a small group of friends to run through some tests of the rules. Objectives would be extremely simple. The smaller human group will need to get from point A to point B with limited ammunition.

I do have a series of scenarios written up from days past and have briefly shared some of the rule concepts I had in mind with Kerrik. Safety is a major factor in this type of event so the rules will need thorough testing beforehand.

[Kerrik13]

A lot of good ideas have come in from a variety of people. I am going to be doing some test runs of a zombie styled game pretty soon at the Merrimac field. Hopefully this will help work out some kinks in the zombie style game so that an actual event could go off without a hitch.

[Peally]

Actually, headshots would be useless, as in RE4 their head blows off, an insect (Las Plagas) emerges, and makes killing them twice as hard :D.

Mabye a select few zombies could have low-powered-cheapo-5-dollar-walmart-spring pistols, to give a few zombies the illusion of throwing things (I suppose real axes and pitchforks wouldn't work, would they?). Some of those suckers have a REALLY low range. One I have can't shoot 10 feet with lobbing. This might give the zombies a slightly better chance. If the humans have guns, even with limited ammo, getting a call-out kill seems like it would be difficult even with many zombies.

Hell, if the zombies way outmatch the humans then restrict them to walking. I don't know, I'm just throwing around ideas.

Just some spring of the moment thoughts.

[Agent J]

Actually, headshots would be useless, as in RE4 their head blows off, an insect (Las Plagas) emerges, and makes killing them twice as hard :D.

Los Ganadanos are not freaking zombies! They are villagers possesed by Las Plagas!

And it's a lot easier to nail the head and then the Plagas than to kill them otherwise.

[breech]

ahh the coveted zombie scenario, these are always fun

i'd stick with the biohazard rules for the most part, they seem to work well, pistols and shotguns only, limited ammo, and it take 3 shots to knock a zombie down

i used to remember where to get the pull over masks that would fit over full face protection masks for like 3.00 a pop, gota try to dig that link up again

[Peally]

Los Ganadanos are not freaking zombies! They are villagers possesed by Las Plagas!

And it's a lot easier to nail the head and then the Plagas than to kill them otherwise.

Yeah, I figured that if anyone played the game they'd blurt that in my face. Yes, I agree, they aren't zombies. Technically speaking. But hell, they still shamble at you and carry assorted farm and middle-aged weapons at you and blow up under a jackhammer all the same in the end :).

That's as far off-topic as I'm willing to go. PM me if you want to talk zombies/villagers ;).

[Biscuit-Boy]

Another idea would be to have the humans needing to survive for a specific amount of time (5 mins or so), until evac/backup arrives. Zombies/aliens have infinite respawns, humans become zombies. 2-3 hits to kill zombies. Zombies slap humans to kill.

(also, most of the ganados and culties head's don't explode with the las plagas, only some of them.)

[Peally]

Hahahahaha! Eveyone has a Las Plagas comment all of a sudden :D. Kerrik, is this an outdoors scenario, or strictly CQB? Or somewhere in-between? If this is outside then this definantly needs to be at night. The whole horror thing doesn't work out on a sunny day. Plus, zombies would be much easier to aim at and hit during the day, unless you plan on giving out ghillie suits to the walking dead.

[Wolfram]

This sounds like a heck of a lot of fun. A couple of thoughts:

1. If you have a squad of "good guys" it might be fun to give one of the members an electronic egg timer that has the digital display covered. They are infected and will become a zombie when the alarm goes off. This can break up a squad really quick and adds a little suspense to the squad.

2. The less ammo allowed the closer the action will be. Resident Evil games are so tense because you are always only a few rounds away from being eaten. By restricting ammo to low caps and springers people will get in close.

3. If you are using egg timers you can also have antidote rules and such. It could be cool to have civilians that could be saved if the "good guys" are quick enough to find the antidote and administer it. If they don't... well no there are more zombies to deal with.

Basically anything that adds suspense and uncertancy is good

[seppuku]

I would still love to see a zombie game "come to life". ;)




1. If you have a squad of "good guys" it might be fun to give one of the members an electronic egg timer that has the digital display covered. They are infected and will become a zombie when the alarm goes off. This can break up a squad really quick and adds a little suspense to the squad.

I was just thinking of an idea just like that! [:Y:]

[Kerrik13]

Awesome ideas, everyone!

I have toyed with the idea of antitodes where people could be saved from being turned into a zombie if you could get to them in time. Not sure the exact rules yet, but working on it.

As far as the setting, I am not sure yet. It is basically whatever fields in Wisconsin could and are willing to hold this kind of event. There are not a lot of CQB environments in Wisconsin. Apoc, WGF, Fairchild, and APP all have fields that could be used for zombie-style events.

An idea is to go with biohazard rules (pistols only, one extra magazine per pistol) which I believe was expanded to shotguns as well. The other option is to go with lowcap magazines and allow any sort of weapon as long as it is a certain FPS or lower (for instance, 320 fps or lower for all weapons). Then, the weapons would be semi-auto only and each weapon can only have one additional magazine. This would allow a military unit to carry some M16s or maybe a mercenary unit to suit up with some G36's or something. Both of these options I am going to test in practice a few times, so I will post some AARs related to both.

On the note of headshots, a game like this would discourage them... the incentive to shoot a zombie in the head is not justified by the possible painful shots to the neck and face. So... at least for a game like this... headshots will either count as normal shots or not count at all.

[Agent J]

antidotes (as I see it)

Upon being infected by a zombie, a player starts his egg timer for x minutes. Limited number of antidotes can be found hither and yon, and if they are "used" before timer runs out, guy is not zombified.

Hmm . . . why not use cans of soda? Gotta chug the whole thingy for the antidote to work. That makes it take some time before antidote can work, which is good. Also limits number of antidotes possible (I guess. How many can of soda can you chug? No answers from you, Maple), and prevents antidotes from being reused (no cheating)

[Maple]

My thoughts (basically reflect those of others)

GBB pistols (no full auto) and spring pistols/ shotties only.
A small team of SuperNinjaDeltaRangerSealEodReconSniperzzzz are allowed to have aegs, but are limited to 2 lo/ standard (no mid or hi) caps only and must find more ammo like everybody else.
Have a couple of roving ammo stations. (Limited amount of ammo at each location)
If you are tagged (like the game) by a zombie (who can run like in 28 Days Later) you turn into a zombie.
No antidotes.
No $200 for passing go.

Run it in 1 hour long "phases" (I shudder to use the word as it seems silly to me) with the remaining folks rolling over into the next phase, along with folks who started the day as zombies.
Keep a tally of which players lived the longest ans put them into a drawing for a prize at the end of the day.... like a nice WA pistol to show off as being the ultimate zombie killer.

As for where to play, I'd keep it simple. If you use a place like WGRF, limit game play to the field and just inside the forest. Apoc, keep it limited to one or two of their "fields".
If you open too big of an area, you will get a lot of people hiding and not getting into the action.

[Beasthunter33]

This sounds like a heck of a lot of fun. A couple of thoughts:

1. If you have a squad of "good guys" it might be fun to give one of the members an electronic egg timer that has the digital display covered. They are infected and will become a zombie when the alarm goes off. This can break up a squad really quick and adds a little suspense to the squad.

2. The less ammo allowed the closer the action will be. Resident Evil games are so tense because you are always only a few rounds away from being eaten. By restricting ammo to low caps and springers people will get in close.

3. If you are using egg timers you can also have antidote rules and such. It could be cool to have civilians that could be saved if the "good guys" are quick enough to find the antidote and administer it. If they don't... well no there are more zombies to deal with.

Basically anything that adds suspense and uncertancy is good

That has to be the most crazy and yet awesome Idea I have ever heard.

And I think 28 days later style zombies would be much cooler.

Better yet, have only shotguns for good guys and plasma swords for the Zombies....

[Agent J]

That has to be the most crazy and yet awesome Idea I have ever heard.

And I think 28 days later style zombies would be much cooler.

Better yet, have only shotguns for good guys and plasma swords for the Zombies....

Who needs zombies? Let's have zombine with grenades!

[Jun Wen]

Plasma... what? My original concept didn't include running zombies. There was something atmospheric about a horde of the undead scraping towards you. Also, I was a little concerned about the safety risks of a zombie or two charging at full speeds to "consume" a victim.

[Kerrik13]

I have been toying with the idea of allowing zombies to basically power walk. Not as fast as a run, almost as fast as a jog, but fast enough to put the scare into a player who is attempting to conserve ammo and not get eaten.

[Jun Wen]

Agreed. Anything short of jogging. If we play by limited ammunition rules along with unlimited resurrections for the zombies, then a faster walking pace would suffice. Eventually the number of zombies will severely outnumber the living to the point where the speed restriction will not be as limiting.

[Agent J]

Yeah, good points I think.

[Biscuit-Boy]

Yeah! Energy swords for the zombies and shotties and magnums for the sparta-I mean...humans. Just make sure the zombies don't switch out to the shotties while the admins aren't looking! Anyways, you could always do it half-life 2 style, and make it so the slower the zombie, the stronger they are. So then the fast zombies can sprint, but one or two hits will put then down. And the huge poison zombies take 5-7 hits to bring down, but they have the traditional slow zombie walk, and then the regular zombie is just 2-3, and have a regular walking pace.

[Jun Wen]

Why would the zombies switch over to guns when the only way they can kill is to be within a certain distance/tag a human?

[Beasthunter33]

Why would the zombies switch over to guns when the only way they can kill is to be within a certain distance/tag a human?

It was a joke that some of the older members on here haven't seemed to have caught on to. If you have every played Halo 2 online you will probably get it.

[Kerrik13]

What does everyone think about a difference in the way people get hit during a game like this? For instance, normal hit rules in airsoft are You are Hit = You are dead. Frank's field (Dragon's Lair) plays with hit locations, so if you get hit in a non-torso or head location you lose the use of that extremity.

What about a rule that if you get hit once, instead of being eliminated, you are "wounded" and you get to hobble around with a bum leg. This would make running from zombies a bit more interesting. If you get hit again, then you are "hit" and would then pull out your kill rag.

A system like this could possibly be confusing, but the added suspense of not knowing if the guy with the bum leg will outrun the zombie horde would be pretty cool. Ideas?

[Maple]

The problem with hit locations is that usually if you are hit once, then you are hit by several bb's. So what do you make it, once = 1 bb or once = one burst.
I like the added effect of being a casualty rather than a KIA, but in my experience, it leads to arguements over if the person was hit by several bb's or just one.
I'd stick with the old, if you are hit, you are out of action, unless you have a personal medkit or a medic is near by.

[Biscuit-Boy]

Zombie medics? Hm...meh, just make em' lie on the ground for a few seconds (10-15) and then hobble back to a respawn. (dig a really big hole for them to crawl into and then crawl back out of once they're done their wait period or something, make them respawn points)

[seppuku]

The problem with hit locations is that usually if you are hit once, then you are hit by several bb's. So what do you make it, once = 1 bb or once = one burst.
I like the added effect of being a casualty rather than a KIA, but in my experience, it leads to arguements over if the person was hit by several bb's or just one.
I'd stick with the old, if you are hit, you are out of action, unless you have a personal medkit or a medic is near by.
I think that's a really good point, but if the event is limited to mostly semi-auto weapons, I don't think there would be too much "bursting". However, that brings up another potential concern: without the ability to lay down bursts, I think it might be better for people not to wear a lot of heavy and/or thick web gear where they might not as easily feel hits.....or maybe it doesn't really matter. :s

[Jun Wen]

If Operation Biohazard reports are true, it's the light and agile that will prevail over those who try to carry as many guns as possible onto the field. In my mind, the zombie idea is more about survival and less about zombie hunting. Take what just what you need and use your wits to stay alive rather than relying on your gun.

Going along Op Biohazard rules, I like the idea of being saved from a bullet wound by a medic, but not from a zombie attack. Once someone falls victim to the undead, there isn't a way to bring them back.

[Maple]

I can pull the trigger on a GBB pretty damned fast. Like John Woo fast.

[Kerrik13]

The problem with hit locations is that usually if you are hit once, then you are hit by several bb's. So what do you make it, once = 1 bb or once = one burst.
I like the added effect of being a casualty rather than a KIA, but in my experience, it leads to arguements over if the person was hit by several bb's or just one.
I'd stick with the old, if you are hit, you are out of action, unless you have a personal medkit or a medic is near by.

Maple,
The ruleset I am favoring so far is for semi-auto weapons at a game like this. But you are correct, it might be hard to differentiate the two.

What about this... The living teams can have medics and can heal others. If you are "hit", you pull out your killrag like normal. If a zombie comes to you when you are "hit", you become a zombie. But if a medic/doctor gets to you and heals you, you are "hurt" and have to hobble around with a bad leg (which means you will be slowed down). This means you are still easier to catch by the zombies... which seems to be a constant event in a zombie movie (the hurt guy with a bandaged leg usually slows the group down and says "Go on! I'll hold them off!", shoots, dies, etc). I think incorporating some sort of factor that slows people down would really enhance the tension. What do you think? Doable or too hard/complicated?

[Wolfram]

To slow down a living person when wounded what about having the medic have to splint one of their legs? It would make it so that a person has to hobble slowly enough to keep the splint on. If the splint falls off you have to stop and retie your splint (or have your medic retie).

To add more suspense I've got an idea for you so check your PMs

[Kerrik13]

PM checked, and I love the idea (for anyone who is interested, it was about creepy sounds).

I love the splint idea... that is pretty cool. Small wooden boards or fiberglass stakes with some white strips of cloth could be used to make a splint. Perhaps the first "heal" is used on a leg to splint it, then the second "heal" is used on an arm to splint it, then any further injuries just mean your dead. Just an idea...

These are some great ideas everyone has... thanks for the input!

[Maple]

Would those of us who are ruthless SOBs be able to shoot the slow poke wounded folks to save ourselves???

[Stelthturkey]

What happened to Lpegs? If we can't use those and only pistols/shotguns, then I won't be able to use my uub3r l33t w3ap0nz00rz...

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a370/Stelthturkey/Sell/Picture099.jpg

Yea, I know, she actually works: kinda...

[Biscuit-Boy]

ya lpegs plz. That wouldn't be that bad. As long as they were really cheap as to not shoot too powerfully. And of course, 2 low caps only. Oh, and Stelthturkey, love the scope, not sure about the aug mag.

[breech]

no running zombies, that takes all the fun out of it

and there were no zombies in 28 days later, they were infected and still very much alive

zombie = dead guy reanimated, not living person infected with a virus

[Kerrik13]

no running zombies, that takes all the fun out of it

and there were no zombies in 28 days later, they were infected and still very much alive

zombie = dead guy reanimated, not living person infected with a virus

Agreed. Plus, olympic marathon runner zombies might detract from gameplay, where a shambling horde would be pretty cool :)

[Kerrik13]

I was finally able to put the zombie gameplay rules to the test. We had practice yesterday with 9 players (not enough for a really good game of zombies but enough to playtest the rules).

We started the game with zombies requiring gloves and full face protection, needing 3 shots to "down", required them to pull out a killrag when they were "down", could come back to life after 2 minutes of being "down", and zombies could only go as fast as a power walk or slower. We had 5 zombie players.
Zombie hunters got springers or GBB pistols only, one extra mag, no hicaps. The game began and due to the very slow movement of the zombies, there was absolutely no challenge in killing them. The three survivors just walked in a group and shot anything that got close. No frantics... no suspense... just shoot slow moving people before they could get to you. It was pretty much no fun at all because you would never catch anyone (a power walking zombie is easily outrun by a slowly jogging player).

Halfway through the game I yelled out "ZOMBIES CAN NOW RUN" and that is when the fun began. The five zombies reanimated and made mad dashes toward the survivors. You could basically see the "OH CRAP!" expressions on everyones faces as they frantically tried to gun us down before we got without 5 feet of them.

We tested rules where players had limited ammo, players unable to use the bang rule, players fighting other players with zombies lurking around, players using rifles on semi-auto all the way up to 360 fps, and with different "infecting" rules such as coming within 5 feet of a survivor, or requiring a physical touch on the person, or with it taking two zombies to infect someone (the first zombie "grapples" a survivor to the ground and a second zombie is required to infect them) and I got some good feedback for a zombie game. We also discovered that if you go into a game like this with a CQB mindset and you know ahead of time that you will take some close shots that sting, it wasn't bad at all. I had on an underarmor t-shirt, my BDU top, BDU pants, shemagh wrapped around my face, full seal goggles, and my nomex flight gloves and I did fine throughout the day... even with charging 360 fps rifles and taking shots about 6-12 feet away. I have some small red marks from some close range shots, but nothing too painful.

Keep checking the events section... a zombie game WILL be coming soon :-D

[seppuku]

Thanks for posting your experiences Kerrick! I think for slow-moving-zombies to work, you would really need a high zombie to human ratio, and probably a smaller zombie "really dead" time - maybe 30 seconds. With a larger group of people, I think you could have an environment where zombies are everywhere, and the humans have only enough ammunition to take a fraction of them out.

....But, that's all speculation on my part.

[Beest]

Sounds sweet! Maybe with more zombies teh powere walk thing would work fine. If they came in waves it might be different. LOL 5 people could hardly be described as a wave....lol

[Jun Wen]

I had a short trading of PMs with Ryan regarding the balance of zombies versus humans using the Biohazard-style rules. With such a small group, it maybe have been more exciting to have only two humans versus the seven zombies. Still, it's great that there's play-testing going on with the different rule sets.

[Kerrik13]

Here is a little teaser for everyone... keep an eye on the "Upcoming Events" section in the near future! :)

http://www.operationplague.com/

http://www.wolf-recon.com/dues/OpPlagueTeaser.jpg