View Full Version : Game Type: Low/Mid Cap games
Kerrik13
08 Mar 07, 07:29 AM
Do people really enjoy playing with this rule in effect? I know I do, but I wanted to get other people's opinions.
The rules that are common with this gametype are...
-All standard battle rifles can only have low or midcaps.... no winding hicaps or box mags.
-SAW (belt fed) weapons may have a box mag or hicap because they are designed for this. A SAW is an M249, M60, etc
This kind of gametype makes it more realistic, forces players to think about their payload, and players actually have to switch out mags on a regular basis.Do future games in Wisconsin have the ability to run games with these kinds of limitations or is the player base against it? I'm thinking about using this rule in Op Vig 2 and wanted some input.
I'm for it. I have played in a couple and really enjoyed it. I barely use my hi-caps as it is I just like my mids better anyway.
Loofah
08 Mar 07, 07:35 AM
Go for it. most people fumble under repeated reload under pressure because they dont do it enough.
There will always be places to run hicaps, but games that make you THINK before you shoot-thats where its at for me.
Before people whine about a SAW/etc being just about reload free-think again. It CAN hold 2500 rounds, but how many can you get in on a single fill? maybe 800-1000. When your job is to fire to let others move and thats it, you use a LOT of ammo.
Stylin7
08 Mar 07, 07:43 AM
All about the mids!! I only use my hi-caps if I run out of mids.
Kerrik13
08 Mar 07, 09:08 AM
Since we still have... 6 months or so, do you think attendance would be hurt for Op Vig 2 if I changed the ruling to low/mid caps only? I would like to, because I am trying to lean more towards mil-sim, but I don't want to drive a ton of people away.
Ideas? Btw, thanks for the advice and input :)
Rattler
08 Mar 07, 09:20 AM
Since we still have... 6 months or so, do you think attendance would be hurt for Op Vig 2 if I changed the ruling to low/mid caps only? I would like to, because I am trying to lean more towards mil-sim, but I don't want to drive a ton of people away.
Ideas? Btw, thanks for the advice and input :)
I notice that when this type of special rule comes into effect, it keeps the people that don't really want to go for the game itself home, but then you don't have people whining about it, it is the people that really want to participate that will come which will be the majority of people.
Back to the main point, I would be very much up for that, I hate hi-caps anyway, all that winding and rattling, I am switching my whole arsenal over to low-mid caps.
Rattler
It could deter some away, but you never know.
One thing you could do is limit the number of rounds a person can carry....
Another option is to say, You can use 1 hi-cap or you can have as many mid/low caps as you can carry...
Either way people wouldn't necessarily have to go out and buy new equipment...
Rattler
08 Mar 07, 09:29 AM
if you do limited ammo, half the people will disreguard it, otherwise you will have to check, each and every player, even with the 1 hi-cap. If they really wanted to, they could take hi-caps, but that is easy to tell that they are using.
if you do limited ammo, half the people will disreguard it, otherwise you will have to check, each and every player, even with the 1 hi-cap. If they really wanted to, they could take hi-caps, but that is easy to tell that they are using.
I know what you are saying rattler but we need to try and put the honor back into the sport. We don't need to be gestapo police on this. You can ask people to play that way, if they don't want to play that way you aren't going to be able to stop them either way... Give people options and it will amaze you one way or another. In the end its up to Kerrick for OP Vig 2.
Kind of like when you ask people to obey the "sniper" rules most fields have in effect.... Mostly everyone does, there might be one prick that gets called on it and we all find out that hes over, but hey guess what... He no longer does that, or plays there.
Like TomE said, we need to put the honor back into the sport. I'm tired of babysitting because people are too dumb to listen to rules.
Kerrik13
08 Mar 07, 10:27 AM
One thing you could do is limit the number of rounds a person can carry....
Another option is to say, You can use 1 hi-cap or you can have as many mid/low caps as you can carry...
Either way people wouldn't necessarily have to go out and buy new equipment...
Hmm... I like this idea a lot. It limits the amount of ammo on the field but still allows for accessibility for any player. Need to ponder this one :P
seppuku
08 Mar 07, 02:45 PM
I'm sure you'd lose some people; I'd think more of the casual players don't have a stack of midcaps lying around. You should make this a poll though....(e.g. "Would you go to Vig. 2 if it was midcap only?")
30+ Mids for just the M4. Not counting what Downslide doesn't know I'll use of his. lol
The game though, remember, sounds interesting enough that some if not most would buy a box of mags (that they could use ANYTIME) just to go to the game.
Granted the AUG / P90 users and G3 users might experience difficulties, but if there is a will, there is a way.
Loofah
08 Mar 07, 02:59 PM
i have mids for everything. except my SAW. That will be at vigilance anyways, so actually, i dont care! :)
So will your mom, but nobody needed to hear about that! ha! lol
I have a question while we are teetering on the subject of SAW's.... How / where do people draw the line? Like an MG36 is a LMG variant, would you consider that at a "SAWs are the only ones avail for box mags" game as a SAW or would you make them stick to low / mids?
Kerrik13
08 Mar 07, 03:12 PM
I'm sure you'd lose some people; I'd think more of the casual players don't have a stack of midcaps lying around. You should make this a poll though....(e.g. "Would you go to Vig. 2 if it was midcap only?")
I think that because of the large scale of the event and with all the sponsors, I am going to do what I can to draw as many people as possible. So I will probably leave Op Vig as-is.
I am working on a second event series that will be mil-sim based... and THAT game will be low/mid caps only (except for SAWS).
I have a question while we are teetering on the subject of SAW's.... How / where do people draw the line? Like an MG36 is a LMG variant, would you consider that at a "SAWs are the only ones avail for box mags" game as a SAW or would you make them stick to low / mids?
In my opinion, I would probably allow a player with an M4/MP5/G36 with a box mag to be a support gunner. Those box mags aren't cheap and it forces a player to put a little bit more into playing that role. But if you are going for hardcore mil-sim, then probably not... just slapping a boxmag into a gun shouldn't make it a support gun.
Loofah
08 Mar 07, 04:53 PM
a G3 with a belt fed designation is an MG3, or HK21/23. In case people do research and wanna whine about every variant imaginable.
element365
08 Mar 07, 05:01 PM
When I get my escort MP-5 loadout a year from now, I'm so in for one of these!
Beasthunter33
08 Mar 07, 06:13 PM
When I get my escort MP-5 loadout a year from now, I'm so in for one of these!
Just make sure you get it direct from him with the new A-spec spring in there. I personally would rather get the A2s hes got. Or the 416 he just put together, that thing is just sexy.
neonbasschild
08 Mar 07, 06:31 PM
I have a question while we are teetering on the subject of SAW's.... How / where do people draw the line? Like an MG36 is a LMG variant, would you consider that at a "SAWs are the only ones avail for box mags" game as a SAW or would you make them stick to low / mids?
Well the MG36 is a real support weapon, its kinda like the L85LSW. It really depends on how milsim you want to get. Granted the HK 21E is based off the G3 family but there are differences. I think that if people are going to use conversion machine guns they should have to have the full conversion done. Slapping a box mag on a G36 doesn't make it a MG36. For example Safari strike has a list of approved weapons that are Machine Guns and therefor could carry box mags.
But personally I love the low/mid cap rule. I just got done selling my M41 and I had all high caps. Now I have all midcap m16 mags and I love it. Granted some weapons due get kinda screwed (G3, AUG) but the G3 only has a 20 round mag in real life anyways. I do feal sorry for th AUG guys, because I like AUGs and for some reason nobody has made a m16 magazine conversion for them yet....
Vigilante
09 Mar 07, 02:12 AM
Even tho I use primarily high caps, I would still definately go to a midcap only game. I'm in if it happens!
jedibgp
09 Mar 07, 02:29 AM
I would be up for Low/Mid Cap games because I just bought a box of Star Mid Cap Ak mags (105 rounds). ;)
SuperGnome
09 Mar 07, 03:31 AM
I personally only use midcaps... as has been said, no rattling/winding. It wouldn't seem too much different for me except people shooting at me will have to reload once in a while. :D I don't go through too many bb's so it's not like much of a handicap... I'd almost consider picking up a bunch of lowcaps such an event.
Downslide
09 Mar 07, 04:35 AM
30+ Mids for just the M4. Not counting what Downslide doesn't know I'll use of his. lol.
right.....
Granted the AUG / P90 users and G3 users might experience difficulties, but if there is a will, there is a way.
12x68 rnd standards for the P90. I did it once, I can do it again! ;)
[QUOTE=neonbasschild] think that if people are going to use conversion machine guns they should have to have the full conversion done. Slapping a box mag on a G36 doesn't make it a MG36....{/QUOTE]
I agree completely. Which is why my G36 is waiting for a heavier outer barrel, as Harris bi-pod and different stock, to more completely represent the MG36 look.
And then there's my Shrike...
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c361/Downslide/Airsoft%20Gear/Shrike/GGShrike.jpg
She's waiting for a Clubfoot battery stock, a bag for the ammobox, a different front end, and custom-etched trades set on the lower.
Hey, thats my bed in that picture!
Cochesse
09 Mar 07, 05:15 AM
That is a pretty sweet A** gun there Downslide. I am jealous. It will look great when it is done.
Downslide
09 Mar 07, 05:17 AM
Thanks.
I'm having a hard time deciding on a front end for it. I want to find something out of the ordinary, other than just a RIS, or a free float. So if ANYBODY has any ideas, I'm listening...
CASV with a 14.5 inch barrel with no rails attached, and an EKLAN
MAYBE! A bipod
youth in asia
09 Mar 07, 06:16 AM
i kinda like the Fire Pig flash hiders :P
On a long barrel with the firepig flash hider on the end it does not look good. On CQC weapon, they look awesome (shorter barreled).
Batman
09 Mar 07, 09:07 AM
Hey, thats my bed in that picture!
Hmmmm, DS' gun, A-Ron's bed.... Anyone else's stomach getting whoosey?
Downslide
09 Mar 07, 09:33 AM
Hmmmm, DS' gun, A-Ron's bed.... Anyone else's stomach getting whoosey?
I knew it wouldn't take long for somebody...
Loofah
10 Mar 07, 02:43 PM
Thats what i heard about both of you :)
On with midcap discussion. yes im guilty also.
Kerrik13
20 Mar 07, 04:24 AM
Last Sunday (18th) we tried out the low/midcap/SAW rules and everyone seemed to enjoy them. We have about 18 players on the field. Everyone had rifleman loadouts that were either low and midcaps if they had them or a single hicap if they didn't. This allowed everyone to play and nobody was left out. I got to try my new CA SAW out on the field and with a low/midcap/saw style game, support weapons are brutal. It was an interesting game style and I really like it.
If a hardcore mil-sim style game series was run in Wisconsin, what would you like to see in it?
neonbasschild
20 Mar 07, 10:57 AM
If a hardcore mil-sim style game series was run in Wisconsin, what would you like to see in it?
Rolling story line, you know where the last games outcome affects the upcoming one. A area of conflict that reflects the terrain (for Christ sake this is not Afghanistan, this terrain could be Europe, some parts of Asia and Russian in the winter. Not the freaking sandbox) I would also love to see something were actual headlines are used. Also if it is actually a series a website would be nice. God knows I would help out there for a good series of games. Last thing if it is a series I would like to see the events more than once a year, have it every couple of months and then just float the game site to the best location available.
I dont ask for much do I?
Personally, I think the story line is not important at all. Sure, it adds fluff, and gets folks excited, but some of the games I have played at have very little in the way of a story line.
IMO, if you are trying to play Army, then make your teams play airsoft "like the Army". Have chains of command, have ROEs, etc. and have concequences (sp?) for not following them. Have a good set of medic rules, with a penalty for losing a player to a firefight. (i.e. No instant respawns) Don't script firefights, sooner or later, the teams will tussle. No need to force them too.
Have objectives for both teams, that may not be important to the other team. The good guys don't always care that the bad guys are doing one thing that is illegal, and may let it go for something bigger and better.
I could go on and on, but the biggest "essential" part of a game is having people attend with the right frame of mind. If you are trying to host a "milsim" game, then you need players who are going to play the game as it is designed. If you get a group of guys there that want nothing more than to shoot at each other (I'm not saying it's a bad thing) then the game will not run as expected. Most "milsim" games that i have attended have either been invite only, or were harsh on folks that didn't have the spirit for the game.
My advice, if you want to host a milsim game, make the first one a private invite. You can pick and choose your players and get your feet wet with folks who have played them before.
Now remember, this is all my opinion and it doesn't really amount to much more than the ramblings of a drug dealing loser who carries guns in a school zone.
Kerrik13
20 Mar 07, 11:42 AM
Rolling story line, you know where the last games outcome affects the upcoming one. A area of conflict that reflects the terrain (for Christ sake this is not Afghanistan, this terrain could be Europe, some parts of Asia and Russian in the winter. Not the freaking sandbox) I would also love to see something were actual headlines are used. Also if it is actually a series a website would be nice. God knows I would help out there for a good series of games. Last thing if it is a series I would like to see the events more than once a year, have it every couple of months and then just float the game site to the best location available.
I dont ask for much do I?
Well, you should definitely check out the Operation Storm Lance storyline campaign I have been running in Merrimac, WI... :P
http://www.silverwolves13.proboards77.com/index.cgi?board=events&action=display&thread=1164150099&page=1
Thanks for the ideas/input!
nemesis
20 Mar 07, 08:04 PM
lets play a game with a story line similar to "we were soldiers" that would have to have load out regulationsand such also gives both teams achance to make advancements and it would be able to have multiple objectives and none to few breaks through out the game
neonbasschild
20 Mar 07, 08:33 PM
lets play a game with a story line similar to "we were soldiers" that would have to have load out regulationsand such also gives both teams achance to make advancements and it would be able to have multiple objectives and none to few breaks through out the game
My team was going to hold something like that. The game was going to start on Friday night and not stop still Sunday afternoon. The players would be living there in the field. Give everyone a idea of what its really like to a grunt. But sadly we are having problems because of suing issues in the state of Wisconsin (a waiver is not iron clad in this state).
im doing some research on WI. based teams on how many out there are ready for low/midcap game requirement?
sorry if this is the wrong place.
youth in asia
16 Apr 07, 08:03 AM
Wolf Recon is getting there. i think almost everyone has mid caps and then of course we have an M60 and M249 that wont use mid caps tho.
yeah. M60s of course dont count. they will fall into automatic gunner.
Batman
16 Apr 07, 08:29 AM
TFD members have all been told to have the needed mags by years end. Manny of us already have them. Only a few dont
Downslide
16 Apr 07, 09:19 AM
Nobody likes me enough to invite me on their team,:cry: but I'm good to go. Mids for everything and 2 support platforms (Shrike, and MG36).
If you host it...they will come....http://www.thescifiworld.net/img/smilies/stargate/jack2/jack_new_anime07.gif
Kerrik13
16 Apr 07, 10:07 AM
Blitz,
Op Round Up on May 6th is a low/mid/SAW cap style game, Operation Stormfront in Fairchild, WI on May 20th will follow the same rules, and Operation Vigilance in September 2007 might be switching to it as well (unconfirmed at the moment). One balancing rule we did in some practices is that if you have no low or mid caps, then you are allowed to carry one and only one hicap with you. This helps the new guys that only have a hicap to be able to still play in an event like this.
There are a few discussions about this in the Game Event Ideas section as well. Personally, I love low/mid/SAW style games and would gladly attend an event like this.
Ameoba Grande
16 Apr 07, 10:13 AM
sounds good too me but i have no team, unless team canadia counts ;)
Black_Kade
16 Apr 07, 10:47 AM
Atleast four on EMR are midcap ready.....
sniper-aab
16 Apr 07, 01:43 PM
Most of TFSH have highcaps and midcaps. I believe I and a few others are the only ones that are not set for a mid/low game. These types of games are a great chance to use strategy and not have to worry about a wall of plastic comming at you everytime you poke your head out.
sniper-aab
element365
16 Apr 07, 01:51 PM
I'm moving to all low/mids. Will be buying a few boxes of star mags when I return.
seppuku
16 Apr 07, 04:15 PM
FYI: I just merged blitz's "low midcap game requirement?" with this thread. Please continue with the discussion....
sufi_army
16 Apr 07, 04:51 PM
I'm game, tell me when you'll have it...
-sufi_army
Kenuchfleck
10 May 07, 02:44 PM
I'm hoping that after the success of Op Round- Up mid caps will start catching. Round-Up was the first major Wisconsin game that had a huge turn out. Mid caps really do effect games in key ways. For instance, at the end of Round-Up my brother got around the left Afgani flank at the Comm tower and had the drop on 5 guys spaced apart but pretty much lined up against a bunker about 60ft away. My brother had an Mp5 mag with less than a hundred rounds in it. What do you do when you know its going to take at least 10-20bbs for a guy to react to being hit and call himself hit and you need to kill 4 more and change your mag atleast once if not twice. That is the question a mid cap player has to make on the fly. A mid cap player asks himself "do I have 90 rounds or 30 rounds in my mag?" A high cap player asks himself "do I have 500 or 200 rounds in my mag before I start spraying plastic death back and forth over those 5 guys without needing to reload." That right there could be the game breaking decision and the outcome of a battle...
My brother Foolish and I are mid cap game guys all the way. It's not because we think its milsim, (we actually hate strict mil-sim "one death for an entire scenario" kill rules) rather because of the scenario I've depicted above. For the record, Foolish decided he couldn't spray and kill them all so he went for the almighty bang kill and got shot by one of the five guys who by chance decided to glance behind him when Foolish was still 30 some ft away..
By the way Kerrick, I would love to see Vigilance 2 have mid cap rules:)
Kerrik13
10 May 07, 03:24 PM
My other game, Operation Stormfront, is a Mid-cap only style game, but I don't know about Vigilance. I've been thinking about it a lot and I probably won't do it because Vigilance is based off of attendance more than strict rules. Stormfront, on the other hand, could work well with 20 or 100 people, so the rules are much stricter.
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