red dot sights (and other aiming devices)

[seppuku]

i was thinking about getting a red dot sight for my G36C, and was wondering how people felt about them. i know very little about them, so i'd appreciate any recommendations on which ones are good, which ones are bad, where to get them, the difference specs/options/etc, or if there are other solutions out there that are just as good if not better.

my G36C isn't a long range weapon, so i'm not looking for any kind of magnification, and i'm not looking to spend a lot of money. i just want something that will allow me to acquire targets faster and easier than using iron sights (or maybe iron sights are good enough?).

thanks for your input!

on a related note, what's the difference (if any) between red dot and reflex sights?

P.S. i'll throw a poll on here to get some quantitative results...

[Eric_Ness]

Personaly I hate redots, just me, I never put a redot on any of my real rifles, and so I simply can't use them. I tried to put a reddot on an AR, and for whatever reason I get too distracted by it to shoot worth a damn. Buy a cheap on and try it.

[SINN FEIN]

Yes, I too suggest getting a cheap one. I started out with a 30mm NCstar redot on my p90 that cost me $30. It worked great, and I never ended up needing a more expensive one.

[seppuku]

after posting, i did some more :google:ing and found a couple links with info about red dot and reflex sights. figured i might as well post them here:

Trijicon vs. Aimpoint comparison (http://www.stardestroyer.net/AOTC/wwwboard/messages/219.html) (from an unlikely source (http://www.stardestroyer.net/)), and how red dot sights work (http://www.stardestroyer.net/).

[Doc]

The g36c I traded for came with a redot scope, but I just ended up taking it off. The iron sight are good enough. If you don't use it for a long range gun you really don't need a scope for it at all.

When I did use the red dot scope I found my field of vision was more limited than when I just tried to use the iron sight.

Not adding a reddot for a non long range gun can keep the weight down too, that is always a plus.

My red dot was a bit large though with no magnification so that may have something to do with why I didn't like it.

But on my aug I did add a 4 times zoom pellet gun scope. The shots never go dead on with the crosshair but it is a good guide to see where the shots go at longer ranges. I mostly just use it for spotting rather than carrying around a pair of binoculars.

[SINN FEIN]

Trijicon sights arn't really for airsoft though. Considering that you could buy a M14 for the cheapest one, and 3 TOP M60s for the most expensive one :-)

[Texx]

I have used a Bushnell Trophy on most of my guns for the last 3 years. Red dots are effective, if you adjust your hop and scope. If you don't of course you're not gonna hit crap with it.

If you want a decent Red Dot Scope that won't break the bank, take your happy ass to Wal-Mart and buy a Tasco 30mm Red Dot. For $30-$35, you have a decent scope that works. And while you're at Wal-Mart, make sure to try their Kippered Beef Jerky. At $2.54, you can't get your meat jerked any cheaper.......

[RTO]

I'll say that I do vote for iron sights because I feel that there is no reality to using a scope in airsoft. In my opnion, they are just purley for cosmetic looks, unless, of course, you are using a highly upgraded rifle that can utilize a scope effectively. Red-dots do make guns look nice, and I am going to buy an aimpoint replica soon, just for looks though. I don't really aim with anything but the long axis of my gun and iron sights if needed really. In airsoft, you most of the time, dont' have to. Just in my opinion though.

[Maple]

Studies have proven that a sighted in red dot scope is faster and more reliable than using iron sites. The up side to a red dot is that you can aim the gun with both eyes open and from a variety of different angles.

[Stelthturkey]

For me i would put a red dot on my sig to make it look really nice, in my opinion... I dont really need a red dot becuase i dont need fast target aquisition, and irons do just wonderful for me! If u you put a red dot on and it looks over your irons you have to aim down a bit cuz ur looking at an angle... And when u have a red dot u have to deal w/ batteries and half the time u cant see the dot in the daylight. So for me irons sights all the way!

[Maple]

True, if a red dot is higher than your iron sights, you are technically looking at a down angle. Just like iron sights though, a red dot has to be adjusted to aim at your target. Also, a red dot can target even if the rifle is not firmly seated to your shoulder. This helps when you are shooting at an akward angle or making a snap shot.
IMO, it boils down to if I get a chance to "live" or "die", I am going to choose to live. And sometimes the split second a red dot saves you is all it takes.

[Timmay]

If you cant see the dot in the day, that one you bought just sucks.

Even an Aimpoint Replica by G&P/Samurai, is so bright, i almost couldnt use it at night.

[garyb]

I have come across some Ret Dot sights, Front Grips, and Tac Flashlights for 16.00 each. I plan on bringing them this sat to BDH. They are arent the high grade ones but they work. The Red Dot is very bright and easy to see in the daylight.

[Stelthturkey]

i donno... maybe ill try a red dot for looks and to see what all the fuss is about... Like i said, ive never really been in a situation where i needed "fast target aquisition." Usually see/hear them before so yea. We'll see, im going to be spending all my money on a gear set, cylinder enhancement set and some power upgrades.

[Guerilla Dan]

I have used a Bushnell Trophy on most of my guns for the last 3 years. Red dots are effective, if you adjust your hop and scope. If you don't of course you're not gonna hit crap with it.

If you want a decent Red Dot Scope that won't break the bank, take your happy ass to Wal-Mart and buy a Tasco 30mm Red Dot. For $30-$35, you have a decent scope that works. And while you're at Wal-Mart, make sure to try their Kippered Beef Jerky. At $2.54, you can't get your meat jerked any cheaper.......

Amen to that.

[majwinters636]

id have to say red dots suck...

[juansinanos]

I use a magnifying reddot on my TM AUG but then again the TM AUGs don't have iron-sites (other than those terrible ones that clip on to the RIS) so I'm stuck with some rail mounted optical device.

[Batman]

Red dot Aimpoint Comp M3 with flip-up irons in case the batterys die & quick disconnect cavalier mount, in case the redicle gets muddy/broken....

Love it, love it, love it.

[A-Ron]

id have to say red dots suck...
Why? Care to elaborate?

[Downslide]

Why? care to NECRO-post some more?

[A-Ron]

Yup... It's a pertanant topic that could be ressurected. Just because its old doesn't mean it can't teach us some stuff ;) :reading::duck:

[Mikebla]

If your an aggressive player and usually find yourself on the offensive, red dot scopes are for you. Simply put, in order for you to aim with iron sights, you need to line up both the front and rear to make sure that where you aim is where your projectiles go. Though this doesn’t sound difficult at all, running through a field at near top speed while there’s a full on enemy rush coming at you may not give time for that split second you need to line up those sights. I suppose the key elements to a red dot that make it so useful are

[A.) Red dot scopes are optical, meaning, it doesn’t matter if you have the red dot dead center or off to the right or left, your gun may not be perfectly aligned with you, but wherever that red dot on that scope is, that’s where your bbs are going to go.
Meaning B.) they take much less time to line up the shots with.


So my diagnosis for you is, if you’re an offensive player, Red dots are for you, if your more passive, you should be able to do just fine with iron sights. Personally, I think we are all at some point on the offensive, so I suggest getting the red dot for good measure. I hope that helps! :D

[TomE]

I use both a Reddot and Iron sites. I also use shear luck when playing airsoft ;)

(and downslide don't be so bitter Necroing posts is just the way the Interweb works man!)

[A-Ron]

Hes bitter because I have his shemagh ;)

[Chief]

Red Dot is the only way to go. The reason many of you don't like red dots is because you are useing them improperly. Mount the red dot as far forward as possible/practical. The farther up you place it, the faster your eyes can aquire the dot and the more periphrial vision still remains. And, as stated earlier, keep both eyes open, your eyes will atomatically pick up the dot and it wont limit your vision at all. In fact, iron sights cause you to lose almost 50% of you view, because you close one eye and the sight cuts off everything below the target.

Kudos to the mention on the $30 Wal-Mart special. I've used it my whole airsoft life and have no complaints at all. The battery lasts pretty long and the different lbrightness settings make it perfect for night and day.

[Rattler]

I don't usually aim, I fire about 3-4 rounds per person in semi or I just send small bursts. I follow by bb's trail as my sights which is obviously, the most accurate. However I do run a red-dot on my primary. It is good because with the dot you can pin-point your hits and yet you can draw it very easily and you still have the same array of vision because it does not magnify.



Rattler

[TomE]

When I was taught to shoot with Iron sights with both eye's open, takes alot of practice but it can be done. But most people today are taught to close their non-dominate eye and line up the sight that way. I am curious what the military teaches now-a-days, do they teach with both open or do they have the recruits close an eye?

[Chief]

When I was taught to shoot with Iron sights with both eye's open, takes alot of practice but it can be done. But most people today are taught to close their non-dominate eye and line up the sight that way. I am curious what the military teaches now-a-days, do they teach with both open or do they have the recruits close an eye?


They teach to close the non dominant eye.

[Downslide]

Hes bitter because I have his shemagh ;)

I'm not bitter...and you better NOT forget that thing!

TomE, I was also taught to use Iron Sights with both eyes open. I think because of that, I haven't had a real problem using red dots. Three things to consider when you're using them, IMO:
1) The bigger the diameter, the easier to acquire the reddot quickly and not lose peripheral vision - although, the bigger the diameter, the easier it is for the front lens to get shot out by fire received...
2) As Chief stated, move it as far forward as you can on the rail/RIS/RAS/mount. The farther away from your head, the easier to view thru it without changing focus or losing LOS...
3) Variable Brightness Settings! USE THEM! You really want the dot as DIM AS POSSIBLE while still being able to see it. on a 1-7 setting dail, a 7 will draw your focal point to IT reflexively, and away from your target. The dimmer the dot, the less of a distraction (and thereby more of an aid) it becomes.

I use my P90 reddot, cuz its there. on my MP5 I have a KingArms 7 intensity 30 or 40mm tubey lookin thingy...it works, it was cheap... But when I'm outside, I use scopes - 2X to 4X, more for recon than target acquisition, and Iron sights.

[Maple]

I have found that I prefer a holo reflex sight over a standard aimpoint style red dot. I can acquire the target even faster than with the traditional red dots.
I still love iron sights too, but the proof is in the pudding and studies have proven that a red dot allows for faster target acqusition. (sp?)

[seppuku]

So far I've been satisfied with using only iron sights on my MP5 and M16, but I'm going to need to get a reflex sight of some sort (and a way to mount it) for my AK47 - I can't stand those iron sights.

[A-Ron]

Really? Ak-47 iron sights are some of the ones that I like the most.

[Downslide]

Really? Ak-47 iron sights are some of the ones that I like the most.
WTF? you don't even have an AK...

[TomE]

WTF? you don't even have an AK...

Downslide, he's sleep typing again I think...

Do they even use sights on an AK anyway? I mean common the gun is made to spray and pray man!

[A-Ron]

WTF? you don't even have an AK...
I got your Spets biotch! ha ha ha.. I may not own one, but I've used enough of them to know I like the sights on it.

[BoBgOdS66]

When I first started using an aimpoint I hated it becuase I was so used to using iron sights. In the end it is more efficient and since they are designed to have you aquire targets more quickly than perhaps more accurately than say with a magnifying scope. I've found the fact you can see more to be a significant advantage. I think another reason airsofters dont like red dots even though they cater to exactly the kind of weaponry we use (inaccurate compared with real rifles) is that many dont use sights. Most just use their bb's the way the iraqis use tracers here and fallow the bead. That worls fine when you have 500 rounds in one magazine although it eliminates te suprise element. If you truly aim before you shoot the red dot will significantly improve your accuracy and target acquisition, especialy if you practice with it enough to get sued to it. However if you are just a sprayer it may be just another asthetic device. I've been growing more and more used to my aimpoint, well I actually enver fire the thing now that I'm in country, but marksmanship training helped my aversion to it subside at our mobilization station. Also, atl;east the aimpoints, are not accurate when viewed from any angle unti 50 yards, now that is only applicable for close quarters with us, but in airsoft most rifles become inaccurate at about that range. All this means is you need to center the dot which is still easier than lining up iron sights. The aformentioned advice on moving it forward and making the dot as dim as possible is what the military tought us as well. since my right eye is half blind its easy for me to keep both open and still see primarily only what the primary sees. I never knew anyone who kept both open for irons, but with a red dot you get a neat effect where the view is much more panoramic and the dot appears still very visable. I have the aimpoint that came with my m14 from G&G; it looks just like the real thing but tends to be a little on the too bright side. Its not much of a problem as airsoft groupings are much sloppier than real rifles so the larger area covered by the dot, though annoying, is not really detrimental to the accuracy. It also only has 4 settings opposed to ten.But if you want idiot proof, just get a super awsome green laser :D

[sniper-aab]

Well, I voted for scope...I have a 3 to 10 x's one on my PSG-1...and that baby has enough power that I actually use the scope!

My G3 has a 3x scope on it, but I only use that for spotting...for shooting I just watch where the line of white is going:D

In the future, I plan on getting an infra red scope for my PSG-1...should be around $350...that way I can see you people in your camo...;)

sniper-aab

[DA TANK]

Earlyier this week i went to the new cabelas near millwaukee and i picked up a BSA 42mm red dot sight that was originally $45 and i paid $19.99. I would have to say this is definitly the better than a scope and easyer to use than iron sights. Please buy red dot they own and the bigger the lens the better.

[sniper-aab]

I guess I'll bandwagon...

Red dot scopes are nice for anything but sniping. For sniping, you do want some magnifacation...and that red dot really irritates my eye (I might be the only one...)

sniper-aab

[Texx]

You can get Green and Blue dot scopes as well.

[Biscuit-Boy]

I bought a G&P 30mm aimpoint replica off of ehobby asia, it was only about $38 shipped, and I got it in a little more than a week (8-9 days). And it has brightness control.

[Cleric]

Being new to airsoft, I only have one AEG, a TM MP5A4, and I'll be using just the iron sights for a while until I really learn that weapon well. Maybe after that I'll look into a red dot.

Does the military teach you to shoot lefty if your left eye is dominant? The only "formal" shooting training I've had was at the range at Boy Scout camp many years ago. Being right handed, I close my left eye when aiming rifles, but my left eye is dominant. Perhaps i should be shooting lefty.

[Skullman]

On my M733 I still use the iron sights . But on my SR47 I prefere my red/green dot scope.

[element365]

Well, my eotech hasn't given me any troubles yet, and the reticule looks soooooo cool.:D The battery life kinda sucks though. Not really worth the $300 for airsoft, but the awesome factor makes up for it a little bit. Actually, it's probably the last piece of kit that I'd ever sell.

[BoBgOdS66]

Does the military teach you to shoot lefty if your left eye is dominant? The only "formal" shooting training I've had was at the range at Boy Scout camp many years ago. Being right handed, I close my left eye when aiming rifles, but my left eye is dominant. Perhaps i should be shooting lefty.

The military technically teaches us to go with the dominant eye, at least my instructions always was that. However if you have good vision in both its probably better to stick with what feels more natural. I had to teach myself to shoot lefty because my right eye can't see the 150m+ targets (im friggin' blind yo!). Basicly, almost everyone goes with dominant hand unless your practilcy blind in one eye.

P.S. Equlibrium rocks.

[Downslide]

Element, you suck.

Cleric, I used to have the opposite problem. I am a southpaw and I was right eye dominant. It REALLY sucked for archery and riflery. In pistol shooting I used to piss off my coach because I would end up in a screwed up stance, firing lefthanded, but my body would be at a wierd angle so I could sight with my right eye. He ended up making me work my left eye more (patch the right eye for a lot of target practice) until I got to the point where I am now. My right eye is still a bit dominant, but I can force myself to track with my left while keeping them both open.

[TomE]

I have the opposite of DS, I am left eye dominant but I shoot right handed. I too had to learn how to track with my right eye. And I keep my left open to keep a full field of view, it gets really tricky when you are looking through a powered scope tho. It used to make me really dizzy but I guess I got used to it

[Texx]

I can shoot ambidextrously with a handgun. But shooting a rifle or shotgun southpaw has been a little more difficult for me.

[Cleric]

Yep, when I use a pistol I end up in an odd stance due to being a righty with a very dominant left eye. The optic nerve in my right eye actually has a defect. Oh well, I don't shoot professionally, so I am not worried about it. I have never really tried to shoot lefty. I'll have to try looking through a red dot sight some time soon to see how my eyes react.

[Stelthturkey]

Just bought myself a G&P Aimpoint Replica for my SR... Let's just say it's a lot better than ****ing around with a NC Star one. Now I can actually use it, before I just had it on as a cosmetic.

[Wolfram]

Downslide,
I like the idea of using a scope for recon. How messed up are you when you have to make snap shots and you have the scope blocking your sights? Is it a minor inconvenience or does it alter the way you play?

[Sig68]

I go with red dots on all my guns! P90 and Sig552

[SuperGnome]

Downslide,
I like the idea of using a scope for recon. How messed up are you when you have to make snap shots and you have the scope blocking your sights? Is it a minor inconvenience or does it alter the way you play?

Yeah... scopes for recon are wonderful but I tend not to use them for that reason. Sudden engagements are tricky. I was kicking around the idea of sticking a red-dot on top and a compact larger zoom scope on a side rail just for recon.

[Hops]

I was never good at using iron sights, optics are a lot easier plus thanks to my red dot, i can see where the bb is going and now my hop-up is adjusted perfectly.

[The_Jackal]

I use an EoTech, yes a real EoTech not some clone, optic on my M4. It took some dialing in, but it works great now.

[applegonebad]

I have a leapers red/green dot comeing :)