Your So Called Roles

[RTO]

Theres been some discussion on teh forms here that i've seen in reguards to roles in teams. While I do utilize this "structure" of teamwork, I do have my own imput on "your so called roles." I'll give my two cents on it, just because I can and I think it'd be a healthy discussion, with lots of points given to support each. Then we might be able to decide if they are worth having on a team.

First off... Yes, my team does utilize them, but extremely losely. The only reason we have a difference between support, rifleman, demolitions, and possibly engineer (still uncertain if we need it) is that if someone needs cover support, it is the sole resoponsibility of one person. That person is usually willing to put themselves in teh line of fire on our team, hence they support the team. Rifleman is just your everyday, common, joe nobody. They hold a gun and take shots if need be, but mostly they walk through and dont' do much to aid really. Then we have demolitions, this person is in charge of the big... KA-BOOM!!! aspect of warfare on our team. If we setup a trap or what not, it is usually our demo. guy setting it up and making sure that it will go off. Other than that, there really is no need for the acutal, ROLES, to be played out, I feel.

Remember, we are playing w/in distances of 200 ft mostly. There is no need for a guy to come out with a huge M249 SAW, or M60, and level the entire area in the middle of a firefight. There is no need for a guy to be sitting waiting in the bushes to fix stuff (engineer) in airsoft. If your gun breaks, most likely you will leave the field unless you have another gun on you. IMO, its far to dangerous to field strip and fix a gun right on teh field. To easy to lose stuff. And so forth, we dont' need a grenadier to lob a M203 shell a few hundred yards to blow the crap out of some little shack, it just doesn't work in airsoft. Unless you really know how to lob your shots, lol, like the how far shot that ya pulled off knob at the Aug. 13th game, lol.

So my two cents lies as is. There is no real need to define who is what, other than to be able to call on someone in a firefight, to get your ass out. Or to setup a trap. Thats what I feel.

On the other hand though, I do feel that it is sometimes "fun" to relate certain aspects of the real world into airsoft. Making the game seam a little bit real. But for some of you out there, who do this to try and makeup for something you had before, or never had, it gets a little... shall we say, excessive?!?!??????? to be out there commanding with an iron fist. (I personally do not like it, as per expierence from August 13ths game, where the mexicans had no right being in our country stealing our plans! lol) Do it like democrats do, decide as a team the entire objective and how to meet it and then strive to accomplish it. Yes, this may mean that you do have to step up and take the "____ty job" sometimes, wether that be sitting and guarding something, or gettin your ass in the ____, whatever you prefer. As for all you other types of leaders out there, yeah, my own system here, dont' flame me for speakin my mind please.


All in all, yes, airsoft is suppose to be simulated combat, but isn't there a point where it becomes to simulated, and starts to get out of hand?

(Yes, i prolly still have errors and ____ in there that I am to lazy to go correct, so just read it and be happy and respond with any of your comments.)

[Night Stalker]

I agree with a lot of what you said.
It is all just paying around, but for somethings, it helps and just makes sense.

I know a lot of teams have different structure they use.
Our team has a ranking structure. We go by the time served on the team, So many months gets you farther ahead. Every 6 months is another promo. and you knock months off to gain more rank by going to more games and out of state games. As far as actual jobs, for enlisted men, no. You are an operator and you are all equal regardless fo rank. We don't train squads, groups or fireteams. We want everyone on the team to think for themselves and fill in where they think they can get the job done or cause the most damage. Everyone is just as important and can do the same job.
For officers, they have actual jobs. I am team leader and CO. and do many things. We also have 4 other officers that have their own jobs and soon to be a couple more with new tasks.
Some of the jobs titles are changing as we speak, but here is a small idea of what we have,..
Supply & Acquisition -
Personnel-
Ranking-
etc.

These are actual jobs not fictitious.

[SPANKY *AK-47*]

I agree with RTO on this subject....

[Night Stalker]

I do feel that that ruling with an iron fist on the field has no place for airsoft. I have seen 2 different team leaders do this. One would yell and scream when thigns didn't go right, and the other stopped a game half way through the day, so we (TFD) all had to wait while he ran drills with his team because they got beat 2 to 1 by our team. >cough cough Jim "Blackhole" cough cough< I know all of TFD should remember that one at Germers. Total BS in my opinion. I guess that is why Ghostbear is in charge. Much better leader in my opinion.

But to the point, nobody should get yelled at while on the field, they are there for fun like anyone else and it is a hobby. If you have to yell at people on your team, you are a POOR leader. Now I like to be firm in the team structure away from the field. There are always those on the team that actually WANT to be there, and then you get those that want to join and you never hear from them ever. They want to be a PART of the team, but not be a team member. Those guys get the boot.

RTO- wrote.. "decide as a team the entire objective and how to meet it and then strive to accomplish it. Yes, this may mean that you do have to step up and take the "____ty job" sometimes,"

You have 2 different issues, you cannot decide on an objective as a team and STILL step up to be a leader. I gotta say, if you decide as a team on what to do, you will be out there all day trying to make up your mind. You are right, someone has to take charge in most cases because it is a fact of life, there are leaders and followers. Some were born to never lead, and they do a great job if you tell them what to do. That is ok. Some were born to lead and they do a great job at that. But then you got some that haven't a clue, they don't even know it, but yet still try to lead. It ends up being a train wreck. But it doesn't matter if you won or not. As long as you played your best and most importantly you all had fun without safety problems.. it was a great day.

[Black_Kade]

Probably the only actual real role I have seen in airsoft is the "sniper" But then again it is a halfway useless role. especially @ places like WGR, where a sniper really isnt needed that much. Which is the main reason I am no longer one. For those who are, good for u. There are only so many people that can fill your role.

[nemesis]

we only utilize three postitions on our team...

sniper, medic, and assaulter...

that is all that is truly needed... every thing else will just fall into place

[RTO]

But it doesn't matter if you won or not. As long as you played your best and most importantly you all had fun without safety problems.. it was a great day.
HOOAH!! Well said.

i never do get a chance to say everything on my mind when i type posts because my fingers can't always keep up with the thoughts in my head, lol.

My view on sniper though, yeah, its cool to have a nice bolt action gun, or a gun that can shoot a little further than mine, but with that, you have so many more engaugement limits. Most fields also do have rules about sniper quallified weapons, and if they can be used or not.
All that to me kinda sux, and thats why i got rid of my APS2. Black_Kade can verify the usefulness of the weapon I used to have. It got far ranges, but once you got in close.. uhh, yeah, ouch is all that can describe it.

i do like the ranking system myself personally, as i do not want to impose a ranking system on my team, it does benefit some teams. when it comes to my team (E.M.R.... still pending actual team status), there is no need for it because everyone kinda agrees with everyone. once we need to do something, we decide quickly and act upon it. byrnzy and i have had a little expierence with tactics and how to do things, so it helps a little, but like you said NS, it would take all day to make up your mind, i do agree to that too. the statement, "If we only would have..." comes to mind all to quickly now that you speak about taking all day long and not being able to decide. lol

[Black_Kade]

Yeah RTO, probably the only reason that our membesr can agree on a specific coarse of action so fast is because we all have been playing with each other on a regular basis for atleast a year. i mean seriosly what has it been for u and me 4 or 5 yrs? Ryan 2 and lastly Byrnzy and Turkey have been with a bit over a year, I think, I forget.

Anyhoo that gives most of us like minded tactical ability, or in other words the syncronization of tactical thought between multiple players.

Yay!

[Stelthturkey]

Yeay, you sound smert. Ne ways, we dont really need positions/roles but it kinda goes along on our game play, and since we have a smaller team, its easier to pick out eachother strengths, weaknesses and such; while helping eachother out w/ constructive criticizm and helping eachother out to become better players... Get what im saying?!?

[Night Stalker]

I know Group W has fireteams and they base as much as they can off of Infantry type tactics. It works very well for them and they have it down pretty good. That being the case, they are also more inclined to go to more milsim type games and have the whole role-play thing set pretty good. That's pretty much all we are doing here anyway. Having fun, goofing off, and playing war. Some of us just go to shoot people for the afternoon fun and games. And that's great too. :)

[Maple]

Having palyed along side and against nearly every team in the Eastern half of WI, I have come to the follwoing conclusion.
Every member of the team has the same job, attempt to fufill the mission parameters. Whether this involves hosing the enemy with bbs, finding a bomb or rescuing a Blackhawk crew. Certain members of the team are better at some things than others. Sometimes, you are stuck into a role due to the equipment that you have.
Although each team has a leader, most of the successful teams do not require the leader to bark orders.

I.E. I have had the pleasure of playing along side two of the more "veteran" teams in the area, TFD and Group W. Whether it was Beest and Timmay leading me through a swamp, or watching Ghostbear's back while he coordinated a recon mission, I found that all they did was make a game plan and then depend on their "troops" to pull it off.

I feel that a leader is their to think of a game plan and then let his team know what he would like them to do. The team is only as strong as their weakest link. (Ask any team I have played on before, they'll let you know just how weak they are when I'm backing them :) )
As for having names for the role that you play, that's okay. Just remember that at the end of the day, to succeed with a mission, you're all going to have to be able to cover a broad range of "roles".

{My quick side note about snipers, just because you spent the money on a rifle that shoots 400fps+ doesn't mean you are a sniper. A sniper is the guy who waits all day to make the key one shot kill undetected. I have only witnessed a hand full of people who have the skill and patience to pull this off. It amuses me when a guy with a "sniper" rifle makes a kill and then brags to the rest of his teammates about his skill, even though they were all wiped out be the opposing side. not great team work.}
-maple

[SPANKY *AK-47*]

i cant really comment on this one, because i've been playing for a whole 2 months woo-hoo, and i'm barely on a team :D so .......yea ;)

[Night Stalker]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
That being the case, you should probably PLAY at the beginners game instead of wanting to help out. Or even go to an AEC too. Contrary to popular belief the AEC is not just for younger players. A lot of us older players have gone to an AEC more than once just to brush up on things, enjoy the day, and support. Chris (Shogun) and co. do run a great course for this and is ideal for younger, and newer players regardless of age.

[RTO]

did i post this in the wrong section, or did someone move it? lol, i just noticed now.

yes, both spanky and pyrokid will be attending an AEC, if not octobers then they get to freeze their asses off in the winter if one is held. no exceptinos, and the beginners game would be of great help to you both. it gets you used to large scale playing, not just the three on three games we have here now and then.

and yes, i do to believe that the ART of sniping is only able to be held up to a select few individuals who do sit their ass down in teh brush, wait countless hours, and then take a key shot to accomplish a mission. ha ha, since we're in airsoft, do we really need that? i feel not, but thats just my opinion, and that opinion is why i got rid of both of my sniper rifles. no use for them!

[Texx]

Roles become more of a necessity when you get into magazine and ammo restrictions. When you get into larger events, having 100 people spraying and praying can be dangerous.

For many, having an endless supply of ammunition takes the emphasis off of tactics and strategy. You don't have to really think about hitting an enemy when you have the luxury of throwing 500 rounds into his general direction and hoping that the law of averages and probability will take over. But when you have the possibility of running out of ammunition, and are relying on 30-50 round magazines, that guy with the SAW is going to come in handy.

When you get into larger games, the command structure becomes more of a necessity because having 4 or 5 teams humping across the field without direction can be total chaos. Most of the larger games are about completing objectives. If no one is coordinating the efforts, who is going to complete the objective?

No, maybe having a designated role is not necessary in current smaller games where everyone has high caps. But when you start moving into Milsim, larger games, or more specific objectives, they can quickly be the difference between completing an objective, or being wiped off the field.