low/mid-cap only game?

[youth in asia]

sorry if this is in the wrong section or has already been posted before (i looked around for a bit), but i have a question. how many people would be interested in a low/mid-cap only game being run? i would really be into a game like this, and i hope someone sets one up sometime. i know that there could be some complications to this, but that is for us to try and solve.

/discuss (???)

[sniper-aab]

I, using either a TM PSG-1 or a TM VSR-10, love the low or mid cap idea...seeing as how it wouldn't effect me personally. It would just mean that there would be less "mowing" of the field, which is also good for me. I am just assuming that no hi caps would severely limit people with automatics like AK's.

My $.009
Yeah, still a newb., so I am not yet worth $.02

sniper-aab

[Maple]

Lo and Mid caps are fast becoming a standard in big games, such as the Lion Claws series.
They do limit a certain amount of bb hosing, but at the same time, folks like myself carry a lot (12+) of midcaps for games like this. (Hell, I saw a pic of a guy at Irene carrying at least 20 mid caps)
I like the mid cap rule, as it pushes out the kind of players who hold the trigger down rather than actually try to shoot a target.
Be warned that you will most likley not have a big turn out for a game like this, as most of the "kids" (I use the term for immature players of any age) prefer to be able to hose the field with their 8 hicaps.
-mat

[Fish]

Im in fo sho.

[jedibgp]

I would up for one just need to dust off my low-caps ...mmm... But my RPK would be out of thee picture then (no low-caps). :duh:



Be warned that you will most likley not have a big turn out for a game like this, as most of the "kids" (I use the term for immature players of any age) prefer to be able to hose the field with their 8 hicaps.


Like this..... :vommit:

[youth in asia]

i totally understand what you're saying, Maple. thats why i thought i'd post this to see how many people responded positively.

i was hoping that since it would be low/mid-cap only, it would take away from the whole "paintsoft" thing.

[Maple]

i was hoping that since it would be low/mid-cap only, it would take away from the whole "paintsoft" thing.
You would think it would, but it does not necesarily. You could make some people use 30 round mags and they would still "paintsoft" up a game.

Honestly, if a person is carrying 10+ 100 mid caps, they can still hose. Sure, every couple of seconds they would have to stop and reload, but anybody worth their salt can swap a mag fairly quickly.

Not saying that it isn't a good idea, but don't expect it to change the face of WI paintsoft into Milsim. Some players will just never get it, no matter what restrictions you place on them.

But I should shut-up now, as I am retired.... wait, I guess my comments are making me a chair-softer.

[Agent J]

Us shoestringsofters are gonna have a problem with that, but we're a minority. Sounds like something I'd love to do, in that wonderful hypothetical situation where I have enough money to buy lows and mid-caps.

[youth in asia]

wait, you retired!?!


anyway, yea, i can see how it would be hard for people who can get the cheap-o mags. for example, my friends has an SG-1 and the only low caps we could find were the expensive marui ones. oh well...

[Maple]

*Chair-Softing Alert*


If you use a gun that MAG (or other cheap magazine manf.) makes magazines for, then you can usually pick 8-10 of them up for $50-60.
Sure, they aren't the best mags, but for the price they can't be beat. You lose or break one, oh well, you're out a few bucks.

[Agent J]

P90? I haven't found anything yet. Plus I don't have a job now, too much school, too little time. If I put all the time I spent on this forum into working at minimum wage, I might be turning over $10 a week easy, but I'd miss so many interesting conversations.

[Maple]

*Chair-Softer Alert*

Nope, as far as I know, there are no cheap P90 mags.

[5thSF]

I'm glad more people wanna do the low/mid cap idea. I know im knew to this whole WAA group and i dont no many people, but id love the chance to get out and play one of these realistic games with some positive players who take these games seriously but yet have fun doing it

[Fish]

The people that take this game seriously are no fun at all. Just look at Maple, he is an ass.

[Maple]

The people that take this game seriously are no fun at all. Just look at Maple, he is an ass.
*Chair-Softer Alert*

I prefer being called an asshat.

[SigPro552]

Midcaps for the win. I'd be in nqa for this game.

[A-Ron]

The people that take this game seriously are no fun at all. Just look at Maple, he is an ass.
Seconded... he is an asshat.



I'm always down for this style game.

[Texx]

I prefer standards and midcaps to hicaps. Not really because of the capacity, but because of their functionality. I hate winding hicaps. Especially when I can have a fresh magazine in roughly the same amount of time. I also don't like rattling hicaps. Hicaps seem to have a shorter lifespan. Standards are vastly simplified, have less parts to go out, and are easier to maintain. Not to mention, they tend to feed far better.

[Downslide]

I third. Maple=COLONEL ASSHAT.

I have MAG 120 round mids for my M4's. 7 of the 8 are smooth feeding, solid mags. There is one that has a premature expulsion of BBs if it is tapped firmly, but i just try to use that one first. It still feeds fine, its just really eager to get in the fight I guess. I also have a pair of the MAG G36 mids that function great. Eventually I plan on getting a box (or splitting one with somebody) of the MP5 mids, too.

Sure, I'd love to have 10 metal midcaps for every gun I own, but its just not worth it.

[A-Ron]

... There is one that has a premature expulsion of BBs if it is tapped firmly, but i just try to use that one first. It still feeds fine, its just really eager to get in the fight I guess....
Eager my ass... That thing shoots its load if hits one of the walls in the magwell as your putting it in your gun!

Premature ejaculation of bbs is more like it.

[youth in asia]

someone organize a game, then!

[5thSF]

low/mid cap game at my house today, rules are simple, no shooting the parents or dog, my little brother is fair game. i expect everyone here 10 minutes from when they read this post. :)




but for real, if theres a game some body tell me

[Stelthturkey]

Yea, I owned MAG midcaps for my 552 when I had it and now I own 4 for my G36. The 552 ones that I owned were pretty finicky, but the G36 ones that I own currently work great and feed great (for the most part, once and a while they need a tap).

[seppuku]

I'd definitely play. I have MAG midcaps for both my M16 and my MP5 (even though like Downslide, I wouldn't mind owning all metal ones ;) ).

I haven't been playing with midcaps for that long (or even airsoft for that long), but the most difficult thing I find is maintaining a rough idea of how many BBs I have left in the magazine. I've found myself shooting air on several occasions, trying to figure out why the jabrony 20 feet away from me isn't calling hit. :duh:

[youth in asia]

i know its a lot of work, but i might try having the last 5 or so bbs in the mag a different color. that way i know when im running low.

[juansinanos]

I'd definitely play. I have MAG midcaps for both my M16 and my MP5 (even though like Downslide, I wouldn't mind owning all metal ones ;) ).

I haven't been playing with midcaps for that long (or even airsoft for that long), but the most difficult thing I find is maintaining a rough idea of how many BBs I have left in the magazine. I've found myself shooting air on several occasions, trying to figure out why the jabrony 20 feet away from me isn't calling hit. :duh:

You should try putting a differnt color BB at the end of your mag so you know when you are about to run out. I've done it before and it works great.

Edit: dang youth in asia you beat me by 2 seconds

[A-Ron]

Last 10 rounds different colors, then you can tell. Having it be just the last five is hard to tell when your on full auto.

Theres a significant sound difference when its just a muzzle pop compared to actually chambering and firing a round. I've just come to realize that sound.

[Downslide]

he hears it alot.

[Jun Wen]

While I like the idea, the concept alone isn't really enough to draw me out to play. Still, I'd be interested to see the details of the game once someone takes the lead.

[seppuku]

Hmm...different colored BBs. Thanks for the tip, guys! Aside from dark versus light, is there are a lot of different colored BBs out there though? I think listening to the gun is a great idea too, and just something I'll have to be more in tune to, even during the "Heat of Battle". A combination of both should work really well I think. At one point I thought about drilling tiny holes into the side of my mags, so I could see how many rounds were left. I'm not that brave though...

I guess that's the other "issue" I have with carrying a lot of midcaps though - they're a pain in the arse to load. [:N:] Much easier with the Marui 470 round speed loader (as opposed to the 120 round pistol-mag loaders I was using), but I should really invest in one of those electric loaders. Kenuchfleck keeps one in his vest, and it makes me jealous. ;)

[Fish]

Excel has the orange and green traccer bb's. They are kinda pricey but would be just fine for that use.

[Downslide]

Tracer rounds would be good, and yeah, a tad pricey. Unfortuantely, there aren't a whole lot of options for multi-colored .2s, and black wouldn't help very much since you cant see them very well at all. You wouldn't want to go down to .12s to get the colors because your hopup would be set for a heavier BB and you'd end up sending them into orbit instead of at your target. :D

[Kenuchfleck]

I'd do this style game as well! I'm actually waiting to get my Lion Claws 5 DVD, this was the first year Lion Claws made it a rule that all participants could use mids or low caps only. I second the Wen though, mid/lo mags isn't enough to draw me out. The scenerio needs to be good.

Another idea I've thought about is an event where all men are considered riflemen and can shoot semi auto only except for support guys (carrying an ammo can with you makes you a support guy) they would be the only ones full auto capable thusly making for some interesting engagements.

Seppuku, don't be so jealous of the electric speed loader! I've been asking Santa to give you one for Christmas, I tell him you're a good friend of mine and if he did this for me I wouldn't even want anything for myself :) I also have that hot Marui M16 styled one you own and use it just as often as the electric..

Also, mid/lo reloading is part of the willful pain you check off on in doing an event like this. This is a positive in my opionion, you may actually need to break contact and bunker down to reload in game, What fun! I don't think many of us have ever even thought about needing to do this mid mission! It would give some guys (like me) a chance to actually put some functionality in all those Molle pouches I have on my vest rather than to just look cool :)

Kenuch

[youth in asia]

"At one point I thought about drilling tiny holes into the side of my mags, so I could see how many rounds were left. "

yea, i think the french had an idea along the same lines during WWI. what a great gun the Chauchat turned out to be! :P





http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chauchat

[Ghostbear]

Ok, so let me interject for a second here.

You guys are trying to get a mid/low game going so that it is more realistic, then you talk about using electric loaders to re-load the mags....

That sounds like a great game, force mid/low for realism then add the electric loaders in the vests to remove the realism...

Am I the only one that sees this as just a bit on the stupid side?

[Agent J]

Well, oxymoronic, not stupid :D

Actually, you make a good point. Gentlemen, respond!

[DKruse]

I would have to agree with ghostbear there. If you want to be more realistic, carry about 10 mid/low cap mags and that's it for the mission (some soldiers only carry maybe 300 rounds into a mission, while other missions they can carry up to 600+rounds if needed, but this gets to be heavy and they have to throw out other gear.

I carry a standard, four star 30rnd mags, and a 190rnd vietnam style mag, plus, sometimes, a 300rnd high cap if I think I'm gonna need to shoot a lot(supportish). Plus my TM P226 with 2 mags(I load 15-17 rounds in each mag only, instead of the some 26 rounds you can fit in it) as well as my glock with three mags(loaded similarly). With one speed loader(120rnd,cheap style) as a backup.



Tracer rounds would be good, and yeah, a tad pricey. Unfortuantely, there aren't a whole lot of options for multi-colored .2s, and black wouldn't help very much since you cant see them very well at all. You wouldn't want to go down to .12s to get the colors because your hopup would be set for a heavier BB and you'd end up sending them into orbit instead of at your target. :D

When I had a supply of .25 in OD and white I would do the last 10 rounds (unless it's my 30rnd mags) with whichever I don't want the rest of the mag loaded for (I generally use the OD as a stealthy attack/ambush round... so it's harder for people to see where the BBs are coming from.)

But be warned, when using different types of BBs (company wise, not just weight). By switching between weights and such you could hurt your hopup bucking.

Other than hearing the "pop" of an empty mag, I can also see that I am no longer fireing the white BBs I generally use.

PS an AEG that shoots 20 rounds/second is not the best choice to use lowcaps with... unless you go single fire only haha.

[seppuku]

Ok, so let me interject for a second here.

You guys are trying to get a mid/low game going so that it is more realistic, then you talk about using electric loaders to re-load the mags....

That sounds like a great game, force mid/low for realism then add the electric loaders in the vests to remove the realism...

Am I the only one that sees this as just a bit on the stupid side?Hmmm....You have a good point there. I wouldn't say carrying an electric speedloader in a midcap-only game is stupid, but definitely nonsensical. :fryingpan

The electric loader would still be nice for loading up pre-game though, and in a game where everyone else is using hicaps, I don't think you'd really be removing any of the realism by carrying an electric speedloader. I'd probably be worried about falling on it and breaking it though...

[A-Ron]

I'm worried about falling on all my gear and breaking it. I'm just over cautious though.

As far as reloading in a game with an eletric speed loader... WHATS THE POINT!?!?!?
Your trying to organize a "realism" game, why are you going to throw it right out the window?

Ammo capacity is the key. I'll tell you what, orgainze a game where each member is given ONE BAG of bbs, and thats all they have for the game. Put 800 rounds in the bag, and thats all they get to use for the day/segment/phase.

Do something along those lines, so that if you wanna use your speed loader, fine. Your just going to waste your ammo quicker then.

OH....

... your hopup would be set for a heavier BB and you'd end up sending them into orbit instead of at your target. :D
They shouldn't go into orbit, it'd be awesome though. Most likely they wouldn't even fire out of the gun, which would be bad. You could get a sound of it backfiring, clog the barrel, and then they would break (because of their brittleness) in the barrel, and possibly cause more problems. Possibly the need for a new barrel, hopup bucking and / or unit, and a new airseal nozzle.

[Kenuchfleck]

Realism isn't the point of this thread (I think?), Mid/Lo capacity that limits indefinate sustained firing is the point. BB loaders of any sort don't matter, you still need to break contact to reload. Lion Claws events aren't milsim events and they use loading mechinisms I believe..

[Ghostbear]

Ok, ok, maybe stupid was a bit strong, but you got the point....

As for a limited ammo game. That can work, it can (if done correctly) can work very well, but.... There are some little wrenches that have been problems with people in the past, which I would like to put out there to contemplate before you go out and plan this little game.

First, some people are loyal to a specific bb mfg. Personally I have a very short list of mfgs for bb's that I use, and I don’t tend to deviate from it. On VERY rare occasions I have, but I quickly return to the ‘good’ brands even if I have a supply of the other from a game. That is a personal quirk, but bb’s are hydrophilic and as such the storage of the bb and the brand make a difference in how they feed and shoot from an AEG, so I don’t shoot brands that I don’t know, and of the ones I do know, I don’t like shooting a number of them. I like to stick with bb’s that I have had a long track record with no problems, and not trust that someone stored them in a wet environment. And if you dont know what hydrophilic means, it means that the bb will swell to some extent if exposed to water or moisture. In the case of the bio-bb's that is a real problem. And if you use a tightbore, the smallest swelling of the bb can cause a bb jam in the barrel and that is what the unjamming tool at the other end of the loading rod is for.

Second, I and many of you out there shoot .25’s because they are the recommended weight for upgraded AEG’s. Shooting a lower weight has, in the past anyway, shortened the lifespan of parts in the AEG. Now, this is not open for debate, it is what I have experienced in the course of playing this game for nearly a decade. And I don’t like shooting .20’s in my upgraded AEG’s. So, if you are choosing a weight, then you should be aware that there are people that use .25, or .20 or some other weight they have found meets with their expectations of what they want do use. And if you provide a weight that is not what they like to use, there will be people that don’t like it. And yes, you will lose those people in a game like this. Some won’t care, but if you are trying for the realism, then you are trying to get people that have been playing for a while and those are the ones that have become comfortable with what they like. So, don’t try to make them change too much or you won’t have them playing that day. Or you could end up in the worse case scenario for this kind of situation… The bb’s provided jammed in the barrel and shattered the hopup, now you have a player that is yelling at you because your ‘crappy’ bb broke his gun and since you forced him/her to play with your supplied bb’s it is YOUR fault. This also goes for games at fields that mandate purchasing bb’s from them. In the paintball world, crappy paint is just a squeegee away from being 'problem fixed', but in the airsoft world, things break and cost in some cases ‘a lot’ to fix if the bb’s are crappy. Again, some of us have seen this first hand and that alone will make some people think before signing up for a game that forces you to use their provided or mandated bb’s.

Third, what you are trying to do is mandate a type of gameplay through the use of limited ammunition… I have played in many games over the years, and I have used highcaps for 99% of them. The only times I have not is when it was mandated not to, but it didn’t effect my style of play one bit. I am more than happy to walk on the field with a highcap and shoot only 3 rounds for the whole day. (Which I did for one game) What you should concentrate on MORE than limiting ammo is to write a scenario that is geared toward conservation of ammo and not geared toward scripted firefights, or worse yet FORCED scripted firefights. If given the orders are given as: ‘patrol an area and NOT allow the opfor to see you, only being allowed to engage IF you are engaged by them.’ That order alone will make a highcap irrelevant. You CANT follow orders and open fire on the opfor. So, if you are good, then you should never shoot a single bb if that is the orders for a section of the gameplay. Highcap, lowcap, madcap or boxmag it all is irrelevant if you have to follow the orders and not engage.

Now, I could go on and on about this, but this post is long enough.

Just remember that what you consider as low priority or not relevant in things like bb’s and such other people can and do find relevant, and that wont make for a good game if you end up with people that don’t show, or have things break if they do. And all it takes is one person that yells at the top of their lungs, and the 50 other people that had fun that day will be drowned out by the one that didnt.

[Ghostbear]

Kenuchfleck,

Actually I would disagree, I think that the reasons for this discussion are to point toward more realism in the game.

One of the issues that I didn’t post in the long post above is that moving to mid/lows only helps those with money to burn.

How many of you think that a game like BHD:2 would have been more fun for you if you were the only one on the field with mid/lows?

See, in the big picture of this there are some that want to force more realism into the game and one of the ways that have come to light is to limit the mags that people can carry. It has worked in some cases, it has worked well in some cases. And it will make its way down to the local games over time. The mid/low game has been made popular because quite a few players that have come up through the ranks have either been unable to display trigger control OR believe that limiting of available ammo will increase realism for multiple reasons. The reason for Irene going to the mid/low was because people from last year couldn’t display trigger control sufficient enough to limit the shear volume of bb’s that were on the field to clean up. It wasn’t because of any other reason. Don’t believe me…?


This rule change will also cut down on the total number of BBs in the air at any one time and leave less to clean up at the end of the event, and less for the Zussman Staff to have to live with afterward.
Taken directly from the forums for the Irene game.

So, who benefits from this ruling?

The people with the cash to fork out for buying 10+ midcaps to play the game with. That’s who. Why you ask am I so cynical? Because many of the players that are here or play in the ‘spray and pray’ games don’t spend their money on mid/low’s they buy highcaps, because they need to for the games they play. So, if faced with a game that limits the ammo to mid/low they have to buy a whole new set of mags for a single game, or smaller series of games. Only to have them collect dust for the rest of the year. How many will? Or how many will by two mids to play the game?

But, for those that can afford to buy some mid/lows for a game like this, they are still going to have to deal with those players that can afford to drop more into the mags.

I mean look at some of the players that want to go this route, how many of them already have a large volume of mids in their packs? Even games like Irene don’t limit the number of mags you can carry or the amount of ammo you can carry. Just that it be loaded in mid/std/low to be shot. And even if you go Star mags with the cheap set of 10, there will be someone that can afford two sets of 10. Now, trying to hold 20 mags also is in the same vein, as cost for the pouches goes with the territory. But, again I hope you can see my point.

[sniper-aab]

:jaw-drop: :hypnodisk . That is what my eyes are saying right now...but seriously...good info. Just give me a second for my eyes to re-adjust to the non-computer screen mode...

sniper-aab

[Kenuchfleck]

This excerpt is taken from the Lion Claws Forum and illustrates both Ghostbears point and mine pretty well. The first part covers environmental issues of airsoft already stated by Ghostbear while the second point covers gameplay issues not covered in Ghostbears previous post....

http://www.oplionclaws.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=64



First, there are the environmental problems with airsoft - persistence and visibility. Fields are hard to come by in California. Fields that will accommodate Lion Claws are really hard to come by in California. California's mild dry climate means BBs do not degrade for a very long time. One site has closed its doors to airsoft due to accumulated and very visible plastic waste that is still there years after several major games were held there. Players who regularly attend both "open" and "restricted" games know that when magazine sizes are limited, the net amount of ammunition used drops. This is in part because of delays in reloading, and partly because the play style changes. For an event like Lion Claws, pellet waste is substantial and is a factor in our being able to secure fields. Anything we can do to reduce the rate at which this waste accumulates is a good thing.

Second is game play. It is true that airsoft is rarely "one shot, one kill," that the guns do not have the range of the real world versions, and that brush and wind can notably effect their performance. This perhaps is an argument for enhanced magazine sizes, but... most airsofters react in an exaggerated manner to suppressive fire that already slows the game. When an AEG carries enough ammunition that every rifleman can suppress a target for long periods of time, with no thought to his remaining ammunition... this has a undesirable effect on game flow. By reducing magazine capacity across the board, teams will find they have greater freedom to maneuver, and squad tactics and coordination will be more useful. This is our vision of what airsoft should be. Our intent is to create rules and situations that inspire realistic tactical responses and experiences for the customers.

Some games have addressed these issues by placing an absolute limit on ammunition (each player has only X BBs for the entire event). Others have "only put X BBs in each mag" rules. We considered these options carefully. Although these ideas solve some of our problems, after much staff discussion we concluded none of them proved a practical and comprehensive solution given Lion Claws' magnitude, logistics, and changing focus.

We understand that this may put the game out of financial reach for some players, and that others may strongly disagree with this rule. We are announcing this change four months ahead to give players a chance to offset this expense. We are sorry if this means some of you will not be returning. We feel strongly that these compelling environmental and tactical issues merit the change. Future Best of USA games will re-use these rules so your investment will be rewarded. There have been many less expensive new magazines released recently (<- example link) for multiple weapons platforms. We encourage you to try out different solutions before attending the game to determine the arrangement that works best for you.

[blitz]

greetings my cheesy friends.

maple, borat says... you are a retard? i mean retired? :)

anyways i think lo-mid cap restrictions is good IMO.

i really think we should try to have a few events next year w/ such requirements or if not, invest on 275.00 and play on op irene next year that way you'll get a better perspective on the pro's and con's on these requirements, that way you get to decide if it does change the dynamics of the game.

its really not about whos got the money to spend on more mag, its all about the coolness of switching mags every 100 rnds, or sitting on an ambush and wondering if you still have enough ammo to drop 3 tangos. but personally, i just dont like looking at people shooting and at the same time winding mags. is it me or is it the fact that gas guns dont come w/ hi caps :D

btw, GB did you finally get your bushmaster?

[Maple]

maple, borat says... you are a retard? i mean retired? :)


I knew that as soon as you saw that movie you'd have all the witty Jew jokes... damned Borat.

[Beasthunter33]

Quick throw some money at him and make a break for it!!!

[Maple]

Quick throw some money at him and make a break for it!!!
That only worked once (or twice) last year at Bounty Hunter Wars. Damn shiny coins distracted me.

[Ghostbear]

Blitz,

Nope, it is still "being shipped"....

[youth in asia]

"That only worked once (or twice) last year at Bounty Hunter Wars. Damn shiny coins distracted me."

LMMFGDFAOBBQ! :D

[Biscuit-Boy]

DKruse, I have to argue the point of soldiers only carrying 300 rounds into a misson. I'm sure it's been said before, in fact, I know it has, but a bb does not equal a bullet. About 3 bbs equal a bullet. Mostly because of accuracy and range, also recoil. If airsoft guns recoiled and shot as accurate as real guns, we would be able to play games like that. If anyone has stated that in this topic, let me know.

[Sweinster]

DKruse, I have to argue the point of soldiers only carrying 300 rounds into a misson. I'm sure it's been said before, in fact, I know it has, but a bb does not equal a bullet. About 3 bbs equal a bullet. Mostly because of accuracy and range, also recoil. If airsoft guns recoiled and shot as accurate as real guns, we would be able to play games like that. If anyone has stated that in this topic, let me know.

No amount of BB's equal a bullet. A BB leaves a welt, a bullet leaves a scar. BB's could possibly be fatal, bullets are fatal. In airsoft, you are hit by a bb, you call youself out, and walk back to a respawn, real soldiers don't get that chance to "respawn" We as airsofters are not "soldiers" We are mere "toy soldiers" wanting to be like the real thing. I state the point of milsim meaning Military Simulation. Simulation, think about that for a second, just think. Simulation, we are simulators, not soldiers. In no right do you, nor I have the right to say that a bb equals a bullet, or that we are soldiers. We have no idea what real war is like, unless you've actually been there. And if you have, I solute you.

[Agent J]

No amount of BB's equal a bullet. A BB leaves a welt, a bullet leaves a scar. BB's could possibly be fatal, bullets are fatal. In airsoft, you are hit by a bb, you call youself out, and walk back to a respawn, real soldiers don't get that chance to "respawn" We as airsofters are not "soldiers" We are mere "toy soldiers" wanting to be like the real thing. I state the point of milsim meaning Military Simulation. Simulation, think about that for a second, just think. Simulation, we are simulators, not soldiers. In no right do you, nor I have the right to say that a bb equals a bullet, or that we are soldiers. We have no idea what real war is like, unless you've actually been there. And if you have, I solute you.

Calm down there, BB's just trying to make a point about realistic ammo carrying, how our plastic won't penetrate brush like bullets, and how it often takes more than a single shot (if you're firing in the low 300s fps) for someone to notice a hit and call themselves out.

[seppuku]

No amount of BB's equal a bullet. A BB leaves a welt, a bullet leaves a scar. BB's could possibly be fatal, bullets are fatal. In airsoft, you are hit by a bb, you call youself out, and walk back to a respawn, real soldiers don't get that chance to "respawn" We as airsofters are not "soldiers" We are mere "toy soldiers" wanting to be like the real thing. I state the point of milsim meaning Military Simulation. Simulation, think about that for a second, just think. Simulation, we are simulators, not soldiers. In no right do you, nor I have the right to say that a bb equals a bullet, or that we are soldiers. We have no idea what real war is like, unless you've actually been there. And if you have, I solute you.I think we all know what Biscuit-Boy is trying to say, even if his choice of words might be somewhat ambiguous. I believe Biscuit was referring to the accuracy, speed, and range of BBs versus bullets, not their ability to inflict damage.

[Ghostbear]

Brian,

I think that you are right, but in this game we play, the equation is actually valid. We do equate bb's to bullets. And for some we have found that a number of bb's equates to a number of bullets. Now, this is in no way a hit or even an equation of what the bb or bullet does. But, that in order to simulate the battle, and in turn simulate the military, there are some terms that need to be used. And this in no way is to degrade the effect of the REAL soldier or the real effects of war.

[Texx]

I don't think WHY is really all that important. Ammo limitations adds the necessity to make each shot count. It forces the issue of tactics. If your gun is limited in range and accuracy, it forces you to put yourself into a position to make good use of your gun. In the end, I think it makes you a better player while giving you the chance to address the shortcomings of your current system and tactics.


And come on, who doesn't like addressing their short-comings, especially during the holiday season...

[Defender 1]

I think this would be a really great idea (that is if we're still talking about a low cap/ mid-cap game) and I'll be considering it for an Eau Claire game if there is interest for it here.

[Jesse-MAA]

Ammo capacity is the key. I'll tell you what, orgainze a game where each member is given ONE BAG of bbs, and thats all they have for the game. Put 800 rounds in the bag, and thats all they get to use for the day/segment/phase.

.

The iowa guys did that down at OP:BA in iowa in 2005. We were given 300rds a mission per person. It was an fun game, kinda hard on the staff to handout 120+ bags of bb's every 1/2 hour or hour. Also the time it took to bag it up. I'll look to see if I still have the picture of all the bb's.

[Vigilante]

So if you have 300 rounds, you can use it in any magazine capacity your heart desires correct?

[A-Ron]

I'm guessing yes...


See, if your going for a game with strict ammo restrictions, and seeing how many people you can pull over to a "realistic" game in a sense... You can charge a bit more than your average entry fee, tell them bbs are provided, and your set.

[Jesse-MAA]

So if you have 300 rounds, you can use it in any magazine capacity your heart desires correct?

No only standard an mid-cap. However each squad gunner was able to use hicaps. They were only given 300rds, but we split up ammo. I think we went with 200rds per person, giving the saw gunner an extra 100 each. There were also missions that were rewarded with ammo. All left over rounds from the previous mission could be saved for the next.

[Faust]

I would be in for a Mid and Standards only game. I have been dreaming of something like this.

[Downslide]

I would be in for a Mid and Standards only game. I have been dreaming of something like this.


Hmmm...

But, would you sell your soul for it? http://www.thescifiworld.net/img/smilies/stargate/jack/jackanime13.gif

[TomE]

...But, would you sell your soul for it?

What about those of us who already sold it?:yikes:

[Faust]

Hmmm...

But, would you sell your soul for it? http://www.thescifiworld.net/img/smilies/stargate/jack/jackanime13.gif

Meh...