Would you want a sniper on your team?

[sniper-aab]

I don't know where this should go, so if there is no correct place for this subject, please graveyard it.

I have read a lot of posts (a lot of them from Colonel Maple-good stuff by the way), both past and present, that are giving me mixed messages about snipers. I seem to hear most of the time that people think of snipers as dead weight...another useless player. I have seen, however, several posts that give the highest honors to snipers. A yes or no answer is fine, but an explination is greatly appreciated.

Feel free to comment on the usefulness of a sniper. Please do not get into a huge argument over it though.

I chose my name sniper-aab, because that is my role in all of my games with my airsofting buddies, followed by my initials. I am in no way saying or insinuating that I am a skilled person that fills the title of sniper. Just thought I would add that before somebody tore me a new one. :]

Thanks,

sniper-aab

[Vigilante]

Well, in my opinion they are useful at times, and alot of the time, useless. It really just depends on the game and if a sniper is required or not. It does add another great element to the game though.

[Agent J]

I think having snipers is very useful, if for no other reason than they are excellent for reconaissance from a fixed position. They are very useful in taking fixed positions, as the OP4 should be relatively still, giving the sniper time to aim and fire a few times, and usually hit them.

[majwinters636]

snipers can be very usefull in certain situiations. one thing i would suggest would be to have a reliable back up ready incase you run into close hand engagements. a gun like the mp5k would be nice... it can stand up to the full size aegs and its in a tight little package.

[jedibgp]

"What is a Airsoft Sniper" from my old buddy.... Long Arm ( http://www.renegaderecon.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3248)

My opinion... If you can find a field with enough room to play without having (too many) problems with the "100ft engagement rule".... go ahead and play as a Sniper. ;)

[NATHANIELJONESTHUGANGEL]

Well it depends. If they have been "airsoft sniping" for a long period of time, sure, they probably deserve to be on the team more than me.


If it's some kid who just went out and bought the UTG Sniper, than no comment.

[sniper-aab]

You gave me that link in a previous post when the topic was on sniping, and I read it. The article gives a great outline of what a sniper does in a game...that article is one that helped me decide to keep on trying to be a sniper. I am not trying to knock you in anyway (my first sentence seems a bit direct, but I'm no master with words).

Just so everybody knows:
If you post a link, or tell me to look at a certain site, I will. Like I said in a past post...no information is useless unless the reader does not care about the subject. I care about all aspects of airsofting, at least I think I do. :] So keep the links comming...all information is appreciated.

sniper-aab

[sniper-aab]

I google'd it, and found that it is a brand/type of sniper rifle. Is this considered to be top of the line? Please forgive my ignorance. :(

sniper-aab

[Black_Kade]

Well, I’m sure you’ve read the long arse post about Snipers and their intricacies that I wrote, but I will boil it down and add a little opinion here.

As a sniper, I would say YES, I would want a sniper on my team, but one who also has the ability to act as a rifleman and carries a good backup.

When it comes down to it, making assassinations on a particular person in a fixed position, Reconnaissance and fortifying a position (which requires a good backup) are all things that a sniper can do exceptionally well. Unfortunately recon and assassinations are things which usually only take place in REALLY HEAVY Milsim games (like private invite kind). Fortifying a position and attacking a fixed position happen in some games but not all and usually only for part.

Given the previous I would say that Id love to have another sniper but one with a load out which allows he/she (A She would be HOT) to be relatively effective in densely wooded areas unless the field it's self does not have dense woods and is in fact a sniper heaven (rare but they still exist).

Backup weapons I recommend are, TM Highcapa 5.1 or 4.3, also TM Sig p226 (Summer only), these are as accurate as a stock AEG, but they have a high mag capacity and an Awesome ROF.

Or: Any small stock aeg (Any Mp5 will work, G36c, Sig 552, p-90)

The P-90 is my personal favorite, extremely light, great rof, range and accuracy in a super small comfortable footprint (profile). But be prepared to deal with sticky highcaps on just plain lowcaps (u really don’t need that much ammo in a backup, 2-3 standards will do fine in a large game)

Anyhoo, that’s my 2cents

[Agent J]

It is generally regarded as a piece of feces on these forums. His point is that, if you aren't really putting any thought or money into sniping, nothing will come of it.

I also recommend the P90, as you don't need to wind the hicaps after you load and wind them the first time, so you don't have to spend any time on that.

[jedibgp]

I google'd it, and found that it is a brand/type of sniper rifle. Is this considered to be top of the line? Please forgive my ignorance. :(

sniper-aab

No, anything made by UTG (Under the Gun) is of lower quality and can break... like my over the shoulder Holster that came apart in two games. >:(

Remember to use the "EDIT" buttom to edit your post!!!

[NATHANIELJONESTHUGANGEL]

No, anything made by UTG (Under the Gun) is of lower quality and can break... like my over the shoulder Holster that came apart in two games. >:(

Remember to use the "EDIT" buttom to edit your post!!!


Now Jedi, it's not exactly fair to discard UTG as a whole just because your holster didn't work out. There AEGs have been proven to not be the greatest, but the general consensus has been that they are *good enough* for kids not sure if they want to take the $300 plunge on a "real AEG" yet. Also I have heard decent-good things about their vests.

[Ghostbear]

I think that the new player should consider the point is that snipers have a role to play and that ISNT normally what a new player or a young player WANTS to be. The position of a sniper is typically spending a hour to go the distance of 20 minutes that you normally do, and to keep that position and NOT engage people even if they come into view/range. The sniper CAN have the job to recon and OBSERVE a place or a position for a long period of time.

The typical young player or newb that picks up the sniper position is thinking that they are going to be ENGAGING the opfor whenever they get a chance. And that CAN be the position of the team leader, but it usually isnt. At least not the games that I play in.

So, while the sniper is a GREAT position to play and DOES have relevance in airsoft, it isnt for the large number of players and is for a very small few that can deal with the restrictions and difference in gameplay.

The problem with snipers is that they are much like the flip side of eating a bad burrito at a resturant. You dont hear about the 100 times that the burrito was good, you hear about the one time the burrito was bad. The sniper is like that but opposite, you dont hear about the 100 times that the sniper was spotting for a rifle team and didnt fire a single shot over an 8 hour game, but you do hear about the one shot that killed the opfor guy in the window of the tower.

If you can live with being a second class citizen for +95% of the time, and living in the wonder and glory of the 1% shots that do hit someone and make a game changing move, then sniping is for you. But, if you arent, then do NOT waste the time trying to make it into something it aint ever going to be.

That is my $0.02.

[Jun Wen]

The role itself isn't that easy to play in most games. Most events I've been in require a lot of movement and snipers haven't played the traditional role set in players' minds. The fields themselves don't really lend well to the role, either- flat and lots of brush, with not so many choke points.

[jedibgp]

Now Jedi, it's not exactly fair to discard UTG as a whole

More like 75% to 80% discarded. ;)


just because your holster didn't work out.

When you are spending $25 bucks on a holster and it craps out on you in less than 2 weeks... you are going to get angry.


There AEGs have been proven to not be the greatest, but the general consensus has been that they are *good enough* for kids not sure if they want to take the $300 plunge on a "real AEG" yet.

You got to remember.... with the cheaper guns (cheapy Lpeg's) flooding the market the more "kids" will think that's all that they need. And like me will spend alot of money (me = $500) on cheaper guns while they could've just bought an AEG with that.


Also I have heard decent-good things about their vests.

I have one and it works out "ok" but..... if I just spent ($45 two years ago) another $25 could got something a "little" better.

[Stelthturkey]

There are a lot of factors that come into play. There isn't room for a yes or no answer, it more or less depends on the situation.

BTW: Like Ghost was saying, these positions (we'll call them advanced or more justified positions), generally are for players that have been going at it for awhile and have adapted certain skills to go along w/ the position they fill. Currently, I fill the position of 'marksman' on our team, when our sniper goes out, I'm usually by his side or tagging along. We have worked a lot together and in most situations can gauge what the other is going to do. It takes a lot of practice, a lot of patience and a lot of dedication for that kind of role. Lastly, snipers don't generally see much action, half the time their lying in wait off somewhere or lowcrawling halfway across the field at a slugs pace. If that sounds fun, then go ahead and give her a try, but generally newer players want to be a l33t sniper and then come to find that it's not all that it's cracked up to be.

If you have the dedication though, after that 20 min crawl, the 10 mins of waiting, and those few secounds when you pull the trigger, it finally pays off when you get that kill. You hear the *thwap* and you see the person look around in confusion.

-> there's my $0.005 (meh) - that's right, I cut a penny in half!

[sniper-aab]

Yes. I know that the question is much more complicated than simply yes or no...as all the other posters have indicated. Perhaps I did not make my question clear enough. I simply wanted to know if I was getting both sides of the story by reading the previous/past posts. As it turns out, the posts that I read were quite one-sided, unlike most of the posts on this thread.

Thank you all for the multitude of answers. You have all given me a good dual-sided explination of what it means to be a sniper; and for that, I thank you.

In the future, I shall try and make my questions clearer. I read EVERY post in the graveyard, and will try to avoid the glaringly general questions.

sniper-aab

[sniper-aab]

I am hearing from a lot of people that to be a sniper you must: like the one hour trudge through the swam only to wait three hours in the blistering heat only to not end up taking the shot. This actually sounds like fun to me. Maybe that is because I am a tad bit lazy :) . I do not have a problem with being totally useless for a game or two. I am used to rejection/unkind thoughts/words for reasons that don't need to be discussed. I don't mind going on a suicide run just so my team knows where one and only one guy is. I don't mind never firing my gun-less chance of me breaking it then. I love the whole strategizing/blending in aspect of sniping. Granted, I say this after playing as a sniper with my friends for the past 3 months, so I am not saying I am a good shot, yet. Who knows...maybe after my first game as a sniper I will sell my TM PSG-1 and buy an automatic so I see more action. Oh well. Only time will tell.

Thanks,

sniper-aab

[Black_Kade]

snipers don't generally see much action, half the time their lying in wait off somewhere or lowcrawling halfway across the field at a slugs pace

Yay, lowcrawl thru Mud! I live for it, I just hate doing laundry afterward...

[DKruse]

To be honest... to be an effective sniper... you have to be far from lazy... because as an enemy nears you, you have to start to control your breathing and do a quick mental check that nothing is obviously sticking out as they get up next to you and almost step on you as they walk by... even though last time I did that, the guys 1) didn't call it after i said bang and 2) didn't respond after my fellow team mate shot a burst into their backs as they got about 25 feet away from us and kept walking.... but it was still funny as heck! I have a team mate who use to be a sniper... in one game at Apoc he had gotten roughly 75 confirmed sniper kills and over a dozen others that were bad hits that the people didn't call (sometimes that's how it happens... especially at the very extreme ranges where the BB basicly lands on them at 0.01 fps). But it sure can be fun! And then I went two games in a row with only one confirmed kill both games and only one of the "it happens" shots.

As an alternative, I've decided to take one of my older rifles and spend about $125 and get a couple upgrades/updates for it and make it my counter-sniper rifle... it'll be under 400 fps so I don't have any sniper restrictions but will still allow me to attack at longer ranges and sneak easily.


By the way, my sniper rifle is a Tanaka M700 with a couple of nice upgrades... it was about $600 in total. Only downside is that winter it doesn't work the best (since it's gas powered). But eh, I hate going prone in the snow anyway haha.

[/ramble]

[A-Ron]

More like 75% to 80% discarded. ;)

Are you taking this from expirence or reading it? I had one, two of them as a matter of fact, and they worked out PERFECTLY for the role I needed them.


When you are spending $25 bucks on a holster and it craps out on you in less than 2 weeks... you are going to get angry.
Heh $25 dollars? you think thats an expensive holster... wow... I don't think I can say anything to that one. Thats just... wow. Try some of the top of the line equipment made for real operators. Then you can tell me that you'll get angry when it breaks.


You got to remember.... with the cheaper guns (cheapy Lpeg's) flooding the market the more "kids" will think that's all that they need. And like me will spend alot of money (me = $500) on cheaper guns while they could've just bought an AEG with that. You live and learn. Most of us here have started down that route. And what has it given me? Expierence that not many others can say they have.
[/QUOTE]
I have one and it works out "ok" but..... if I just spent ($45 two years ago) another $25 could got something a "little" better.[/QUOTE]
Spend $110 on a vest to have it break on you, or not fit your properly, then you can say how they are "ok." You buy UTG equipment, your getting entry level equipment. What do you expect from it? Do you honestly expect their items to work perfectly for the price you pay?



Yay, lowcrawl thru Mud! I live for it, I just hate doing laundry afterward...
Your parents do it, what do you care? lol

[sniper-aab]

Yeah, based on the description of a sniper, I know that you can't be lazy. I thought the smily face would give away the sarcasm. Every day durring the school year I wake up at 4:30 to do morning chores, and go to bed at 10pm after evening chores. Durring the summer I wake up at 4am or 4:30 to start work at my factory job doing 10-14 hour work days. I may seem like I'm ranting, but I just want to make sure everybody knows that I'm not really lazy.

There...done,

sniper-aab

[DKruse]

Yeah, based on the description of a sniper, I know that you can't be lazy. I thought the smily face would give away the sarcasm. Every day durring the school year I wake up at 4:30 to do morning chores, and go to bed at 10pm after evening chores. Durring the summer I wake up at 4am or 4:30 to start work at my factory job doing 10-14 hour work days. I may seem like I'm ranting, but I just want to make sure everybody knows that I'm not really lazy.

There...done,

sniper-aab

well I wasn't saying you were lazy or anything such as that :) (I'm a stranger to sarcasm). But if you decided to be a sniper, great for you, I hope to exchange some BBs with you sometime soon :) and if not, just as great and I still hope to exchange some BBs with you :) and if you decide to quit airsoft........ well... poo on you.

P.S. About the holsters, I spent $50 on a Universal holster that Army units use.... and I've lost one of my pistols three times now haha (it's the button kind, I sometimes forget to button it). I also have a friend who uses a $120 holster... but he also uses it for his real pistol... so I guess it's alright haha.

[sniper-aab]

Sorry.

My last post got a little on the serious side. I did not mean to "zing" anybody or anything like that. Hopefully I didn't cross any lines or anything...if so, sorry.

Thanks,

sniper-aab

[Black_Kade]

Your parents do it, what do you care? lol

I think you forgot I dont live at home anymore...

Jerk, LOL

Yeah, I know Im an offtopic post killer...

On topic though: Bieng a sniper is all and well, but Id suggest havin an alternate weapon for those day's when u attend a game like Bloodgulch where u have two teams trying to capture eachothers flags in a hail of BB's...

That is if you can afford it.

[A-Ron]

But you just told me yesterday you went home to do laundry!

[jedibgp]

You buy UTG equipment, your getting entry level equipment. What do you expect from it? Do you honestly expect their items to work perfectly for the price you pay?

Being UTG is the backbone of entry level equipment they got to know better.... A single stich on elastic won't last long and that's why a doulbe stich is needed. And a for being a single guy to know that is just plain sad compared to a company. :(


Spend $110 on a vest to have it break on you, or not fit your properly, then you can say how they are "ok."

I'm a "bigger" guy and chances are "most" $110 vest won't even fit me. And that, Tac vest just ain't working for me.... where a Load Bearing system "may" work.


Heh $25 dollars? you think thats an expensive holster... wow... I don't think I can say anything to that one. Thats just... wow. Try some of the top of the line equipment made for real operators. Then you can tell me that you'll get angry when it breaks.

NO .... but being a outa work Jedi and playing Airsoft on shoe string budget yes it is. Yes, I could've bought a leather holster but I bought a cheaper "good one" just to see how it work out/last me.... and it failed 10 days later. But... I Gorilla glued it back together and it's working good for now.


You live and learn. Most of us here have started down that route. And what has it given me? Expierence that not many others can say they have.

Yes.... and at 26 I'm still learning but... I've learned from Hunting that $30 Wal-mart boots aren't that great and that a $20 Wal-mart sling with make your $500 hunting gun fall on the ground.

JediBGP's wisdom of the day...

Buying cheaper stuff when your poor will bite you in the end. ;)

Some products made China are not the greatest. :)

[A-Ron]

If you buy any vest, half the time they adjust... and I've seen how far these vests can adjust out to.

Now they even have size coordinating vests. S/M/L/XL.. And they all adjust bigger and smaller.

Don't complain abuot something if you KNOWINGLY bought it because it was cheaper, and you KNEW that it was a cheaper quality!

[Black_Kade]

But you just told me yesterday you went home to do laundry!

Ya, but I went home to do my laundry because it costs me $4.50 on campus, and I still had to do it at home, but it was free, so Im happy..

[A-Ron]

Sorry, delete my posts if necessary, lol. I had to jab at him...

Snipers though, I kind of got Kade honed onto how fun it can be. I pretty much agree with a lot of what he says.

[Fireball]

So, let me ask this simple question...

If you are under the 400fps limit (that's the limit, right), are you free of the restrictions being a sniper (spotter, 100ft rule, etc)?

[jedibgp]

So, let me ask this simple question...

If you are under the 400fps limit (that's the limit, right), are you free of the restrictions being a sniper (spotter, 100ft rule, etc)?

Yes... here are rules of the two "main" fields...

The Wargame field (http://thewargameroom.com/forum/index.php?topic=252.0)

Dragon's Lair (http://dragon-lair.net/rules_airsoft.htm)

[Downslide]

Correct. Being UNDER 400fps classifies your weapon as a standard engagement weapon. You have to uphold the 10 foot BANG rule, but you do not need a spotter, use lo-caps only, or single shot only.

Now, please note that I did stress UNDER (in fact, I did it again!). Your AEG, or Gas, or Bolt action Spring, NEEDS to CHRONO UNDER 400 Consistently. It cannot go "400,399,398,400,401,397,402, 386,402..."

If it scores more than 400 on more than (i think) 3 or 4 out of 10 shots, then it is considered a sniper and the sniper ruleset applies.

[TomE]

As far as The WarGame Field if any of the shots are at or over 400fps you will be classified as a Sniper and will have to follow the rules as such (100 ft engagement and spotter). Another word of warning for everyone else, if a shot exceeds 550fps your weapon will automatically be disqualified for use at our field for the day. We also ask that you do chronoing with .20s so we can measure the joules of your shot correctly (trying not to exceed 2.8 joules).

[DKruse]

As far as The WarGame Field if any of the shots are at or over 400fps you will be classified as a Sniper and will have to follow the rules as such (100 ft engagement and spotter). Another word of warning for everyone else, if a shot exceeds 550fps your weapon will automatically be disqualified for use at our field for the day. We also ask that you do chronoing with .20s so we can measure the joules of your shot correctly (trying not to exceed 2.8 joules).

If it matters, I bought a chrono not too long ago that measures joules, rate of fire, and m/s only down side is that it only works with threaded barrels (it screws on) but I love it for my guns at any rate :)

[mantis]

currently I am building a team specific to scouts and snipers. I think recon is a very important part of the game. also if you get the chance used right a sniper is very usefull person for drawing people into an ambush.

there are a lot of good things a sniper can do if s/he is used correctly

[A-Ron]

If it matters, I bought a chrono not too long ago that measures joules, rate of fire, and m/s only down side is that it only works with threaded barrels (it screws on) but I love it for my guns at any rate :)
Laylax BB Sattellite Checker?

Good chrono, and easy to convert. Well worth what I paid. Only downside, needs CONSTANT good batteries, or it throws off the calculations, A LOT.

[DKruse]

Laylax BB Sattellite Checker?

Good chrono, and easy to convert. Well worth what I paid. Only downside, needs CONSTANT good batteries, or it throws off the calculations, A LOT.

Exactly, thanks for the heads up on the batteries, I'll be sure to keep mine fresh then.

[SPANKY *AK-47*]

I think that the new player should consider the point is that snipers have a role to play and that ISNT normally what a new player or a young player WANTS to be. The position of a sniper is typically spending a hour to go the distance of 20 minutes that you normally do, and to keep that position and NOT engage people even if they come into view/range. The sniper CAN have the job to recon and OBSERVE a place or a position for a long period of time.

The typical young player or newb that picks up the sniper position is thinking that they are going to be ENGAGING the opfor whenever they get a chance. And that CAN be the position of the team leader, but it usually isnt. At least not the games that I play in.

So, while the sniper is a GREAT position to play and DOES have relevance in airsoft, it isnt for the large number of players and is for a very small few that can deal with the restrictions and difference in gameplay.

The problem with snipers is that they are much like the flip side of eating a bad burrito at a resturant. You dont hear about the 100 times that the burrito was good, you hear about the one time the burrito was bad. The sniper is like that but opposite, you dont hear about the 100 times that the sniper was spotting for a rifle team and didnt fire a single shot over an 8 hour game, but you do hear about the one shot that killed the opfor guy in the window of the tower.

If you can live with being a second class citizen for +95% of the time, and living in the wonder and glory of the 1% shots that do hit someone and make a game changing move, then sniping is for you. But, if you arent, then do NOT waste the time trying to make it into something it aint ever going to be.

That is my $0.02.

even tho my responce is late..and since i dont have any REAL sniping experience ... i have to say, that this was the most clairifying description of a sniper's true "cause" that i have ever read. thank you GB, it really helped me. (definatly should go the the "words of wisdom" section)

[hrtghost]

I think every team should have at least 1 sniper. If your doing Hostage Rescue there great for providing information of where the Target is as well as the Package/VIP. Also in Woodland/Desert Ops there usually the ones with ghillies and use to working alone, so they can get into tighter areas and create distractions. Just make sure your snipers don't over do it. When I paintball I am a sniper, when I play online games im a Sharpshooter and when I air soft is differ between CQB/Sharpshooter