TN tightbore barrels nickleplated, Teflon inner coating?

[Davidson]

I've been looking around lately for a tightbore barrel of some sort for my aug for the next round of upgrades. I realy don't plan on making it any longer than the stock version as it is long enough allready 509mm I think?

In addition to the Systema Brass and Prometheus brands I have seen a few of these Tn barrels that are nickleplated with teflon on the inside. They seem to cost more, but is there a big enough differnce to warrent buying a TN barrel over the other kinds?

[Tank]

The TN barrels are not nickle plated, nor do they have teflon coating.

They are Titanium coated. Hence the deignation of TN. TN is the avbreviation for Titanium on the periodic table...you know...of elements....from science/chemistry...


Adn to answer you're ? about weather they're worth the extra money...The bennefit of Tiatium is that they do not oxidize or corrode. Brass barrels do over time, but as long as you clean your gun regularly it's not an issue.

The Promethieus barrels are made of stainless steel, and have an i.d. (inner diameter) of 6.03mm as apossed to the TN & Systema barrels wich have an i.d. of 6.04mm.
I have heard of some people haveing a problem with the hop-up being less effective on the 6.03 barrels, but depending on the type of gun you're installing them in it may be a non-issue. The biggest thing you have to be concerned about with tight-bores is that the tighter the i.d. the better quality bbs you have to shoot. I know some people like to shoot the cheapest bb's they can get (within reason) but with the tight-bores you NEED to spend the extra money on HIGH QUALITY bbs.

[Davidson]

Hmm ok this site :

http://www.airsoftarms.com/viewproductdetail.php?ProdID=346

Claims it is a "This TN (Teflon Nickel) barrel is the perfect upgrade for your stock TM M16 A2, A2, M16 VN, or TM AUG. These barrels are coated with Nickel for durability and have a smooth Teflon coating down the inside of the barrel to reduce BB friction and increase accuracy."

But then I checked redwolf and they had the same barrel just like you said it was.

I only use the bb's I buy from Gary. And keep them in plastic bottles so they don't get dirty.

Thanks for your help.

[Tank]

That's awsome!
I love when people just make ____ up because they don't know what the hell they're selling...

That's like the other day I was looking at some retailer's (whom I'd never heard of, but I think they're a Cybergun affiliate or something) web site and they siad that A.E.G. stands for "Airsoft Electric Gun", But really it means Automatic Electric Gun....Dumb asses!!!

[Texx]

That's awsome!
I love when people just make ____ up because they don't know what the hell they're selling.


I garantee you, if Airsoft Arms claims it is "Teflon Nickel," then that's what it is. The guys that run it are not some airsoft Knobs who don't know one end of their rifles from another. Nor or they guys who just "make ____ up." These guys are Airsoft Vets by the very meaning of the word who own their business as a hobby. Airsoft Arms has been in business for several years and is one of the very best stateside retailers in terms of supply, customer service, and support.

I know the owners and several of their employees personally, and these guys know their ____.

Besides, Titanium's Abbreviation is "Ti." There is no "TN" on the periodic table. And remember, the element's abbreviations are based on their latin names.

Teflon is a compound (polytetrafluoroethylene - made up of hydrofluorocarbons) while "Nickel" is a combination of metals used for hardness.

http://chemlab.pc.maricopa.edu/periodic/Ti.html

[Night Stalker]

Kind of funny, when I started playing a LONG time ago and also when we started selling.. these were advertised on everyones site as Titanium Nitrided barrels. Hence the TN designation. Wonder why this info changed.

[Davidson]

Would you mind asking them if the barrel is teflon coated on the inside then please and if it makes a differnce? I would be very interested to hear if it has an advatage over the other standard tightbore barrels.

[Night Stalker]

No it does not. They perform the same as the brass, but like Tank said, they are designed to last longer and fight against corrosion. But if you take care of your barrel and lube regularly you will not have that problem. I have a tightbore brass from 1999 and there is no corrosion so you are just as well off ordering the brass and oputting the money you save into something else worth while. There is also the arguement that it is smoother with less friction,.. This is pretty much BS and holds no water since since you have to lube them both anyway.

[Eric_Ness]

Well they very well may be Titanium Nitride coated, but I doubt it, as the TiN coating is yellow, and they would probably use the correct abbriviation. That said, I do belive that it is a Titanium alloy that is coated on the inside and out. I recall hearing Bob Kranker talk of some associates who worked for Magnum Research who split the barrel length wise and tested the coating. It was a titanium alloy, and they said the quality of the coating was outstanding, and was better than some TiN finishes they had seen on various firearms (Talking about thickness here.) Not only that, but comparing the id of both a systema brass and the KM TN barrels, the KM was superior, it was smoother and the id was far more consistent.

On another note, a teflon coating would be a poor choice to coat the inside of the barrel with, as unless they used one of the teflon finishes that is impregnated into the metal (I don't know if you can even use such a finish on nickel, it would be far easier to scratch away than any titanium coating. A quick check of my kitchen shows alot of old telfon coated pans with big old scratches in them, but I have taken a metal file to a TiN coated part and the worst I was able to do was imbed the file material into the TiN coating (A wire brush restored the finish, though the file was ruined)

The Nickel plated exterior is also subject to critism, as I doubt that KM would spend the extra money to finish the exterior in a different way than it came from electro-plating. Electro plated nickel is VERY shiny, KM barrels are not, and while it is not out of the realm of posibilities I doubt that KM would go to the extra effort of finishing the nickel to look like a Titanium finish.

Either way, I am going to agree with Tank, I think those guys are talking out of their ass, and if they aren't then every other airsoft retailer that sells KM barrels has been lied to.

Just my 2 cents as an ex-metal finisher at a biomed company.

[Night Stalker]

"Well they very well may be Titanium Nitride coated, but I doubt it, as the TiN coating is yellow,"

If you were an ex-metal finisher, you would know that not all Titanium Nitrited coatings are yellow. I don't doubt that you did it, but it is not all the same process. I used to work and Rogue still does, at Federal Mogul and they TN,.. not TiN (their abreviation for it) the piston rings. As a matter fof act that is exactly what Rogue does there. He works in the plating area where he does chrome, nitrite, and many other things. And they are the exact color of the TN barrels. So go figure.
But the barrels are metal and then coated. They are NOT nor were they ever made of Titanium.. maybe coated but not solid. You wouldn't get them as cheap as you do if they were.

[Eric_Ness]

I stand corrected on the TiN coating color, though the only TiN coatings we had done were in the Yellow form. I think you mis-understood me there, noone ever tried to tell me the barrel was solid Ti, and yes it would be an un-godly price to pay for a barrel if it were! The price to machine that crap is insane with all the safety hazzards and extra time required. We did a couple runs of some solid titanium parts, and aside from the extra time it took just to get a decent finish on them, it ate through our belts and broke down the media in the blasters at a stupidly fast rate.
To date I have yet to hear a single bit of fiction (airsoft wise) from Bob, while I don't allways agree with his opions concerning german firearms, he has been spot on when it comes to airsoft knowledge, both internals and general info.

[Night Stalker]

"I have two titanium sporks!"

Hey dork, go spam somewhere else!


Eric- "I think you mis-understood me there, noone ever tried to tell me the barrel was solid Ti,"

I guess I did. I thought you meant SOLID titanium. But yeah, see that makes sense that he found titanium on it then. It alwasy was Titanium Nitrided. But then again, that could have changed over the years. Odd that it would still be called TN if it changed though. Coincidental really. But even the guys at the Sanat Clara store of Airsoft Extreme call it Nickel Teflon... but then again, they just work there, they don't own the place or whatever. So I don't know.

[Locutus]

Hey guys, Locutus from Airsoft Arms here. Let me start off by saying I rarely speak out of my ass. :)

I am always amazed how rumors/myths/urban legends are able to spread and refuse to die. TN barrels have nothing to do with Titanium, retailers that list them as such are either doing so out of ignorance (which is probably 99% of the cases), or because they are playing off the common misconception that TN barrels are titanium in order to present their barrels as a superior product to the barrels that the other retailers are selling.

A Teflon Nickel coating is quite common in the metal industry, it provides a very low friction surface that does not require lubrication. Here is one of many companies that offer Teflon Nickel plating:

http://www.reliableplating.com/html/finishes/teflonelectroless.html

If you read the description you can see how that type of coating would be beneficial for an inner barrel. Conversly, a Titanium Nitrate coating is applied to harden a metal to make it more durable. I guess that could come in handy if you were wanting to whack your friends over the head with your inner barrel. :)

If you don't want to take my word for it, here is the translated FAQ page from KM Head's website (translated by Google):

http://translate.google.com/translate?sourceid=navclient&hl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Ehead1950%2Ecom%2Fpage101%2Eht ml%23lcn004

Please reference FAQ #4


4. The TN being what?

It is abbreviation of hard nickel internal equal plated + Dupont corporation teflon coating.


So I hope I was able to shed some light on this subject and maybe help dispell this rumor that refuses to go away. Please let me know if anyone has any questions/comments.

Brian "Locutus" Clifton
www.AirsoftArms.com

[Night Stalker]

Well there you go. It sounds pretty official to me. Thanks for dropping in and schooling us so we are in the know. :)
I would say I learn something everyday... but I didn't learn ANYTHING yesterday.

[Eric_Ness]

Wow, I guess most of the airsoft retailers across the globe DO have it wrong. You learn something new everyday, thanks for informing us of this little known fact.

[SINN FEIN]

Hey Ness, do you know what the classic barrels were made of? Whatever it is, they can survive a lot. Mine has gone through hell and back(submerged in water, twigs stuck in it, ect.) and it keeps on going.

[Eric_Ness]

My Kokusai had a brass barrel, I don't know about your JAC though. (due to ease of machineing, and availibility, I am guessing it is brass.)

[Tank]

Besides, Titanium's Abbreviation is "Ti." There is no "TN" on the periodic table. And remember, the element's abbreviations are based on their latin names.

OOPS! I stand corrected.

I also recend my comment about Airsoft Arms being full of ____.

Thanks for the info Locutus.

[Texx]

OOPS! I stand corrected.

I also recend my comment about Airsoft Arms being full of ____.

Thanks for the info Locutus.

When I was in Junior High, I got in trouble for causing a little trouble in my Physical Science class. I was lucky to have a teacher who found me amusing because rather than expelling me for building a miniature bow and arrow using a hair pin, fishing line and split tongue depressor, he simply made me copy the periodic Table about 50 times. Its only in the last five years that that information has slipped from my mind.

It doesn't help that my father held a Master's Degree in Reading anda BS in Biology and taught both in school.

I am a brainy nerd with tons of useless information floating around my head.
:(