Cheating in Airsoft

[Mr. Crow]

It has become a huge problem over the last year or so. The explosion of new players, along with more places and dates to play, make airsoft games a busy place. A alot of guys getting into airsoft are ex paintballers and are used to a judge calling them out, so they don't call their shots that well.
To give you an example of what I mean:
At Bounty Hunter Wars I was holding up shop at the hotel paying bounties. A lot of the day was quite boring for me as the teams were all out in the field. So when there was action I kept a close eye on it. There was a group of 15-18 year olds pinned down in the grass behind the building. One in particular i saw got hit and kept playing. So I did what any red blooded american would do, i shot him. From 12 feet away with my Silenced MK23, so he did not hear it comming. When I hit him, he dug down deeper in the grass, so I shot him again, and again. And all six times I hit him he would move again trying to get out of site. Of course he had a confused look on his face because he did not know where the shots were coming from. He had the mentality that if he could not see who was shooting him, that person could not see that he was hitting his target. Then tiger Recon brought in their 10th prisoner of the day so I lost track of the guy. Looking back, as OC, I should have stopped the game and sent him home. This happens almost as much as people really calling their shots.

I want to put forward an initiative for us all to work together to cut this cheating way down.

1. During morning briefings, spend 5 minutes to talk about honor. Not in a bullying way, but in an uplifting way that will make the participants not want to cheat.

2. Start sending people home who are blatently cheating. This has never happened at any game I have ever been to. But make an example out of a cheater, and cheating will go way down.

3. One of the reasons people cheat is that they get tired and don't want to walk a 1/2 mile to regen. Game organizers, Try to avoid this when planning a game. Using med cards and multiple regen points may not be a bad way to go.

Lets make 2006 the year we shake the rash of cheating.

[RTO]

Well said Mr. Crow. I know we all have had that thought on our mind as we are playing and we see the person flinch because they were hit, or see them fall over because they were hit in the face but then they get back up and just keep shooting. It has become a growing concern but if we can just explain it to people and have alternatives to walking that 1/2 mile back to a regen, it might work out for us a little better.

[Agent J]

I think an honor speeceh would be an excellent idea. A lot of the newer kids (generalization alert) may think that, "hey, it's just a game, and I bet other people are doing it anyway." the regen point is also a good one. The long walks do get tiring after a bit (particularly if you are officialy classed as a "bullet magnet").

So yes, excellent post.

[Black_Kade]

I agree, but the hard part is proving someone is cheating, I dont want to have 15 guy's in orange vests running around the field all day either. It would be a good Idea to send cheaters home but how can you prove they were cheating? It's their words against yours.

Having multiple regens I think is a good idea, as far as medics go, whenever i get hit for some odd reason there usually isnt a medic for atleast a half mile, drives me nuts. Although having medics and a respawn i would think would be suffecient.

Good Post Crow.

[Mr. Crow]

It would be a cheating instance where an OC or OC impowered player sees blatent cheating like in my instance. I also think team leaders who catch teammates cheating should send them home. it would also set a good precident.

[Raspootin]

Here's my 2c on the issue.
This is obviously a complicated issue with no magic bullet/bb of a fix. I think all of the experienced players have all seen this too often. Particularly with the guys coming up from out of state and former paintballers. Chicago in particular(not everyone though, so don't blast me)as in the last game at Gary's. What I think is needed is a for several people to be given authority to send guys off the field for a time out or just plain home. The WIA needs to create a "Field OC" equivilant possition. Strict guidelines will need to be setup and only experienced Airsofters(Over 21, 20+ games played, plus having hosted games as well) would be allowed to hold this role. Obviously the field owners would have to approve of said person to have that kind of power on their field and can "always" over rule. The field owner is always the final word, but adding an in-between player/OC would give them an extra set of eyes/tools to manage the games and make them better for everyone. There are enough of us that truly love the sport and take honour and integrity seriously to make this work. We would only need a couple of guys at a time for this as I think after a few trial runs and when word gets around the state that there are "Field OC's" playing, it will be enough to discourage a large portion of the "cheating". Right now there are no consequences to cheaters as I too have never seen anyone get sent for a timeout, let alone sent of the field. Basicaly I'm saying cheaters need to have consequences for their actions. Reap what they sow. Get their come-upins if you will.

[Mr. Crow]

Yes yes and YES.

I totally aggree

[Dogboy]

And if that doesn't work...




BURN THEM!

[d9137]

I agree that people cheating is an issue, however, sometimes you may hit someone in their gear and they may not feel it, you (politely) should try to let them know they have been hit in that case. Now the blatent cheaters should just STOP Cheating, but we should also aid the situation and let those people know they have been hit. This has all been said before but a tree limb brushing off of your rear feels an awful lot like a hit. I think the honor of the game should go both ways though. Ok, I'm rambling, I'll stop now.

[NATHANIELJONESTHUGANGEL]

This thread is a breath of fresh air! Seriously, I can't even imagine how people can cheat, frankly i would feel really guilty and weird if i stayed in a battle after being pelted with ten bbs. Not to mention if you are in a firefight and multiple teammates die, it's always fun to walk (or jog) back to respawn and recount on the firefight you just died in (yeah, yeah, I know dead men don't talk, but that may only be to alive teammates, though, please correct me if i am wrong ).

[Beasthunter33]

Yeah sometimes it can be awfully hard to tell, espicially in a building with constant riccohets. And I enjoy talking with other dead teammates to about it, one of my favorite parts, unless of course I am walking back after hitting a guy, KNOWING I hit a guy, and then he shooting back and calling me out. have had that happen before and that really pisses me off. See that is where I want to stand up and say something, but apparently confrontation is bad around here so I just let it go.

[NATHANIELJONESTHUGANGEL]

Yeah sometimes it can be awfully hard to tell, espicially in a building with constant riccohets. And I enjoy talking with other dead teammates to about it, one of my favorite parts, unless of course I am walking back after hitting a guy, KNOWING I hit a guy, and then he shooting back and calling me out. have had that happen before and that really pisses me off. See that is where I want to stand up and say something, but apparently confrontation is bad around here so I just let it go.

Why would you be afraid to confront them? They are ruining the game you paid to get into.

[Black_Kade]

""trial by fire" would be a great way to test if someone is not calling their hits."

"If we all make a more conscious effert to watch what is going on around us, we can all help to remedy this. "


-These quotes were taken from the same thread on another website.


Yeah trial by shooting heh..... Iv had experience with this, u know, you get hit, you rais your hand, stand up and say hit, and just as your reaching for your kill rag ZIP ZIP ZIP ZIP ZIP ZIP ZIP ZIP ZIP ZIP ZIP ZIP ZIP ZIP ZIP ZIP ZIP ZIP ZIP......Owwwwwwww Damnit!

As far as all of us making a conscious effort... I know iv seen people get hit and not call out, and i mean obvious ones too. I want to say something but believe it or not I can be very shy and especially if it's someone older than me. I mean seriously Im 18, some of the people cheating are like 20-30. What would you say if a teenager told you that you were cheating? I dont want to say anything because it could turn on me, or a fight could develop and I dont know about you, but Im skinny and not very strong not to mention i have a VERY short temper which I can only try and control by just staying away. It's about the same if one teen tells another he/she is cheating except other teens also have a tendency to be hotheaded.

I know there are others like me, maybe to many others who dont want to say anything when they could and maybe thats part of the problem, maybe we should be more assertive, but fer youngins such as myself that could be a bad thing.

In short I think having designated OC-players is better for everyone, it will prevent fights and/or verbal conflicts.

[Beasthunter33]

Yeah that would be the same boat me and my friends are in, we want to say something but after recent events it makes it hard to do without turning out to be the bad guy. Like being between a rock and a hard place.

[youth in asia]

i support thes ideas and would like to see them put into action.

[Silenced]

Black Kade, I know exactly what you mean. I'm also fairly shy around other people, and it just wouldn't feel right for me to walk up to someone 15-20 years older then me and tell them they are cheating(I'm also a rather small 18 year old). Especially when I only know about 4 or 5 guys on the field. I'm still very new to the sport and don't know anyone's names yet. And after reading about what happened several weaks ago it kind of detures (Sp?) me from speaking out to others about cheating.

It would be great if somebody/we could come up with a standard set of rules that would apply to known cheaters.

[NATHANIELJONESTHUGANGEL]

Guys you don't just run up to the person i say "CHEATER, GTFO NOW". If you truly believe you hit them, and they know it, put on your kill rag walk over to them and say "Sir (or maam), I believe my excels collided with your mass", if they freak out they look like the bad guy to people watching the ordeal, but chances are they'll be cool about it and just go back to respawn.

[Roadkill]

Your excels collided with my WHAT!! Honestly I have been around people who said they hit someone and get all worked up about it and that person and the others arounds will get all upset, but yet they dont wanna go up to the person. I know there is the case where there may be an intimidation factor or something to that extent, but to be honetly most likely you didnt hit them. If you arent confident enough to confront your target then most likely your bbs fell short. If your absolutely positive you hit them, then just like others have said, put kill rag on, go up in a nonthreataning manner, keep cool, and explain your point.

To the point of eliminating cheaters....ehh...There will always be people who feel it neccesary to cheat just to make themselves feel good when in all reality it just makes people disrespect them.

[seppuku]

I feel that this also why it is absolutely critical to have a non-playing OC running the event. That way if there are ever disputes, there is always someone you can talk to you. It's the job of the OC to arbitrate such conflicts. Even if the OC isn't there to witness someone cheating, if they get enough (or even any) complaints, they can do their best to keep an eye on those shady individuals.

However, I also really like the idea of "certified" player-OCs - trustworthy people who have the authority to call out cheaters. And by not explicitly identifying those individuals, you keep the other players always wondering who might be watching....kind of like those ADT or neighborhood watch or elephant crossing signs.

[Beasthunter33]

Oh God so now we are gonna have to worry about the gestapo on the field as well as opfor. ;)

[NATHANIELJONESTHUGANGEL]

Oh God so now we are gonna have to worry about the gestapo on the field as well as opfor. ;)


Not as long as you don't cheat.

[Maple]

I feel that there is a need to have non-playing OCs on the field. It helps the game move along in a lot of ways.
As for cheating, it is a tough call to accuse somebody of cheating. Even if you know 100% that you hit them (which is tough, especially when you are dealing with a 6mm object hitting somebody at 50+ feet) they may not have felt or heard it hit them. when the adrenilen (sp) gets going, people often have a hard time feeling a shot hit them. Does that mean they are cheating?

If you are 100% sure you hit somebody and that they did not call their hit, sling your gun, put on a kill rag and approach them in a polite manner. Talk it over with them. If they are dead set against calling the hit, call an OC via the radio and have them make the final decision. This is a good test of the persons "honor" too, as people who play the game as they should, will call themselves out of action.

Using the excuse of "the regen is so far away" is a lame one to me. Sure, I hate having to hump all away across the field to regen, but if you can regen too quickly, it becomes a speedball game.

One punishment that I have heard about for cheaters is to make them OC for 1/2 a day the next game they show up at.
For example: Me and Crow are at WGR playing a game. Mr. Crow pelts me with a bb. Like the invincible Ninja Liger, I pull a cool back flip and disappear withput calling my hit. Since he and I both know I was hit, he reports it to the E.O. (event organizer) and the F.O. (field owner, in this case Gary) At the end of the day, I am informed by the E.O and the F.O. that the next game I attend at the WGR, I am going to have to pull O.C. duty for 1/2 a day.

I think that'll teach people not to cheat.

But remember, be careful about accusing somebody of cheating. It is a bold accusation and should not be litely. Talk it over before accusing somebody of cheating. 90% of the time, it was probably something far less sinister than what you thought it was.
-mat

P.S. On a related note, remember, not calling your hits is only one way of cheating. I have seen a lot worse forms of "dangerous" cheating on the field, like blind firing to name one. Those too have to be addressed in a civil fashion, as they can make for a lot crappier outcome than simply not calling hits.

[Dogboy]

Shalom brother!

[Black_Kade]

"One punishment that I have heard about for cheaters is to make them OC for 1/2 a day the next game they show up at."

-Maple


Now that is a good idea!

[Ghostbear]

As for the cheating thing, you might want to follow the WAA rules for this. Since there is a section on this already.

Part 4: Conduct

Section D: Disputes

Item 3: If a player has a claim against an opposting player that does not call himself out a third party will be asked to verify or deny the hit (typically a battle buddy). If that third party cannot verify or deny the hit make and AAR to any OC about the incident while identifying the player(s) involved. Remember this is a game of honor and do not immediately assume that the other player is simply "cheating". Other factors may be involved.

Item 4: OC Guideline - If there is a pattern to incidents between players, with one or more players consistently being reported as not calling hits, record the player in question as having had a complaint filed. If a single player received 3 complaints in a single day, that player should be called out for the remainder of that skirmish event. 3CYO (3 Complaints You're Out) will be the recommended ruling.

Then the penalty falls in Part 6: Disciplinary Actions; Section A; Item 3a:

On the first offense, the player will be suspended for a single event, during which time they will be required to serve at the suspended event as an assistant to the game's organizer or OCs. The suspension will continue until the player has fulfilled his/her requirement to work at an event.

It's been there since May 2002.

[Maple]

"One punishment that I have heard about for cheaters is to make them OC for 1/2 a day the next game they show up at."

-Maple


Now that is a good idea!

I'd like to take credit for it, but I wasn't the one to think of the idea.

The reason why this sounded like a good idea when I heard it, is that it allows people to have to see the game played from the other side. Having OCed a few games, I will say that it is a tough job. If a person is caught cheating, it would give them a chance to see the other side of a game.

As you may know, I am often quick to pass judgement, which is not always a good thing. If we condemn a person as a cheater, that can potentially follow them around from field to field. Unless a person is repeatedly caught cheating, I don't think they should be labelled as one. As I said before, a lot of the time people don't feel/ see their hits. Personally I make an effort to listen moreso than to feel a hit (in case of gear ****s) but not everybody does. So unless you have good evidence that a person is not calling there hits (i.e. Crow's initial example of the guy he shot several times and saw duck) you are probably better off going over to talk to the person.
-mat

[Guerilla Dan]

I don't think it's cheating if you happen to be blessed with the powers of the Liger..I mean, we're the chosen ones. Stop being jealous.

[Mr. Crow]

My goal with this thread was not to nitpick the aspects of not calling your hits. I am not talking about questionable times where you are running through a wooded area and you don't feel a bb. I am talking about Ligers, you know mythical beasts that bb's change direction 1 cm from their body. Usually in the main field, usually at the end of the day and usually 18 and under. We all know who I am talking about there we don't need to create sub catagories.

I bring this up because we are at a new year and that gives us an ability as a group to start anew with a more honorable approach to airsoft.

When it comes down to it, the more respect we give the sport and the other people playing it, the better it will be for all.

[Guerilla Dan]

Yeah, it's best to nip this thing in the bud now. It'd be great to have a clean year of airsoft.

[Vigilante]

Yeah, it's best to nip this thing in the bud now. It'd be great to have a clean year of airsoft.

Well, as nice as it may seem, it probably won't happen. Getting new people all the time and such, and when people want to cheat they will, there will always be some of those kind of people.

[Mr. Crow]

Wrong very very wrong. If everyone here, now, said to them selves "I will not cheat" and if they show by example, their conviction to that promise, then new people will see it and follow.

[Mr. Crow]

They may take our lives, but they'll never take, OUR FREEDOM!!!


EDIT: Visualize in your head Mel Gibson in Blue Paint.

I was a naughty image leacher.

[Dogboy]

Bad Crow! That's image leeching. Please don't do that sort of thing. Mods are trying to eliminate this sort of thing. I am going to leave it, so that others who see it will understand what we mean by this.

[Dogboy]

Back to the topic. Crow is right about taking it upon ourselves. If everyone makes a conscious effort to not cheat, everyone will benefit. Even getting new players shouldn't be a problem. New players follow by example, especially younger ones. Also, if everyone is making their best effort not to cheat, there will be more people on the field willing to take the time to correct someone who is cheating. Not to start an argument, or fight, but to just say dude, you've been hit call yourself out.

[demonmutiny]

ok my 2 cents...but since there will always be someone new to play airsoft, paintball or any kind of game....there will also be cheat and mistakes.....not all newbies (people new to a game or sport) are purposely trying to cheat they maybe mistake it for something else, maybe a tree branch or a ricochet, but there are the few who know the game that have cheated, they have played more then 5 games and might have cheated or even made a mistake....its gonna happen...like good and evil there will always be cheating...now we can try to make it a small time thing but we will never be able to get ride of cheaters all together

no one take this offensively or anything like that...its just my opionion on this matter, yes ive only been to 1 game and maybe i have made a mistake when i played, maybe thinking it being a ricochet, i remember being in i think it was building j at garys and there were at least 50 bbs that would ricochet in if anyone looked out

[Dogboy]

You're right. We will never be able to completely eliminate it, but if everyone makes the effort it will help a lot. Anyone that reads through this will be thinking about it at the next game they go to. Whether they are honest about it or not is up to them, but if they aren't, they will have to wonder if someone else didn't just see them get hit and not call themselves out. We'll make people so self conscious about calling hits that they will be calling everything.
Sure mistakes happen. Yes, ricochets are sometimes hard to discern from actual hits. Will we be ablt to get rid of cheating? No, but even if it is cut in half it will be a huge improvement. Not to mention you really start to work on your field craft. Always trying to be more sneeky, and pick better cover.

[Ghostbear]

Your right, there is no way to remove all the cheaters on the field.

But, that is not the point of this. Crow has hit it on the head, if we (WE) all step up when we are on the field and show that we dont cheat, then some of the people that say "everyone else is doing it" will not be able to anymore. And they will start calling their hits. And that will reduce the number of people cheating.

There will always be some idiot that doesnt call their hits on purpose. Knowing full well that they were pelted and still play on. But, if you are the guy next to them, even if you are on the same side as they are... Call them out. Tell them to get up and walk back to the regen point. Even if they are 10-15 years older then you are. You will likely make then feel like a little turd if you are calling their hits for them, or they will come up with an excuse, but will still regen out of embarassment of being called out on it.

Either way, if we all work on it, even if it takes getting some evil looks from them back, they will eventually realize that it isnt the end of the world having to go back to regen.

Then all we have to keep an eye on is the new guys.

[Guerilla Dan]

Well, as nice as it may seem, it probably won't happen. Getting new people all the time and such, and when people want to cheat they will, there will always be some of those kind of people.

That, and the fact that we have a new 15 year old showing up every week. -_-

[seppuku]

Not to toot any horns, but Mr. Crow had an excellent quote after the game today at the WGRF that I think sums up the mentality that everyone should carry onto the field. I'm not sure if this is verbatim, but he said something like, "Don't think of an excuse not to call yourself out, but think of one to call yourself out." If we all strive to play by this credo, I think the number of un-called hits will decrease significantly.

[SMOKE]

This post has gon on too long. We all want cheating to stop. ENOUGH ALREADY

[Vigilante]

This post has gon on too long. We all want cheating to stop. ENOUGH ALREADY


If only it were that simple... to tell everyone to stop.

[Mr. Crow]

Not to toot any horns, but Mr. Crow had an excellent quote after the game today at the WGRF that I think sums up the mentality that everyone should carry onto the field. I'm not sure if this is verbatim, but he said something like, "Don't think of an excuse not to call yourself out, but think of one to call yourself out." If we all strive to play by this credo, I think the number of un-called hits will decrease significantly.

Dead on bro!

[Maple]

I've always had the mantra:

"When in doubt, duck down behind the closet cover, return fire and complain that the person you shot isn't calling themselves out. If that doesn't work, run away!"

[Texx]

There are also a few more tactful ways of questioning people you may think are cheating. Put on your kill rag, ask them if they are okay, cause it looked like they took a really nasty hit and ask them if they would like a drink. Hey, they could be suffering from heat exhaustion and just not know it.

[Viper]

There is a lot to look over in this thread, so I will just offer up my feelings on the whole topic. In order to control cheating, more "Aggressive" methods should be used to discipline cheaters. Until the law starts being laid down, a lot of people will not think twice about cheating.

I remember when I first started getting into the sport, I had a phone conversation with Brad "Ghostbear", and he stated a number of times , "Those that cheat will get that reputation and soon everyone will know who they are and won't want them at their field", or something close to that.

In any case, I think that what is needed, is a bulletin board of cronic cheaters so the rest of the players and field owners know who is a "Problem Player" and steps can be taken to either exclude, or keep an eye on them. Personally I feel that communication is vital in this endeavor and would like to see what others have to say about this.

[Dogboy]

Another good idea.

[demonmutiny]

This post has gon on too long. We all want cheating to stop. ENOUGH ALREADY

yes i do agree this thread has gone on maybe a little to long, maybe a little harsh but yes..but we still need to come to a final conclusion on how the cheating should be delt with and viper had a really good suggestion...none the less it should be there for everyone to see, maybe lock it or do whatever you do moderators and make it so that its accessable whenever we have a problem on cheating

[Dogboy]

Instead of saying that something has gone on for too long, why not just quit reading it?
When there is a good discussion going on, why close it?

The majority of this thread has been on topic (very rare), and noninflamatory (even rarer!). This is a topic that has been a problem from day one. There are rules for cheating set up with in the WAA, but to the best of everyone's knowledge they have never been enforced. What is now being suggested is that maybe we all get off of our collective asses, and actually start doing something about it.

[Guerilla Dan]

This post has gon on too long. We all want cheating to stop. ENOUGH ALREADY

Apparently, your gone hasn't gone on long enough. >_>; <_<;;.....^_^

[Sanchez]

Apparently, your gone hasn't gone on long enough. >_>; <_<;;.....^_^

PWNED :)

[SPANKY *AK-47*]

just to throw this little 'Tid-Bit" in.....as long as we are talking about cheating, lets also include (in that special honor breifing) something about the "Bang" rule....i dont think "Every one" has this down quite yet, i personally know of 2 times that someone has been "Banged" and said "oh no, im not out, i banged you first", or "i had my gun on you the whole time, your out, not me"... >:(


if any one isnt exactly sure what a "Bang" kill is, shoot me a pm, and i will "De-noob" you ;)

[Venus]

This post has gon on too long. We all want cheating to stop. ENOUGH ALREADY

How sad a day when we have to make entire threads about how you "shouldnt cheat".... but here we are... there was a problem, and it is being addresed by many people with varrying opinions.... and in classic WAA board style... they want the thread closed because... DEAR GOD we dont want to actully realize that the problem is much more serious then we anticipated.... and to fix this problem... oh no... I mean we would have to actully reformat they way we run our AEC... have stricter concequeces for rule breaking at games... but aww heck, lets just have a little 5 minute prep talk and that should straighten things out.......

Sometimes the threads on this board make me sick to my stomach...... how about you guys use the fees that the members pay and solve problems like these instead of posting a thread and then complaining when people have ideas on how to solve the problems....... if the people on the boards saw progress with things such as betterl aec's, stricter penalties and more honorable playing you might actually have more people have join up........ just a suggestion along with all the others here........

[Maple]

How sad a day when we have to make entire threads about how you "shouldnt cheat".... but here we are... there was a problem, and it is being addresed by many people with varrying opinions.... and in classic WAA board style... they want the thread closed because... DEAR GOD we dont want to actully realize that the problem is much more serious then we anticipated.... and to fix this problem... oh no... I mean we would have to actully reformat they way we run our AEC... have stricter concequeces for rule breaking at games... but aww heck, lets just have a little 5 minute prep talk and that should straighten things out.......

Sometimes the threads on this board make me sick to my stomach...... how about you guys use the fees that the members pay and solve problems like these instead of posting a thread and then complaining when people have ideas on how to solve the problems....... if the people on the boards saw progress with things such as betterl aec's, stricter penalties and more honorable playing you might actually have more people have join up........ just a suggestion along with all the others here........

AECs are being worked on, and should be "better" in the next few months.
As for penalties, since the WAA doesn't host games or run them, we can only suggest guidelines for people to follow. The two biggest fields in the area, WGR and Dragon Lair, have both adopted the WAA guidleines for play, and have both been doing the best job they can for rule enforcement. Without more people who are willing to forego play and help OC games, these problems will always occur.
I believe that Crow and those that responded are trying to drive home the point that even when no OCs are present, all players should strive towards honorable play.
-mat

[Black_Kade]

Just my opinion, but i have been to two AEC's and I really cant see how much more emphasis could be put on calling hits. Any more and everyone will fall asleep. I admit it is very important yes, but just saying it more wont do the job.

I do agree with you in that stricter consequences should be implemented.

Damnit im redundant.

[Ianing]

and in classic WAA board style... they want the thread closed because...

Sometimes the threads on this board make me sick to my stomach...... how about you guys use the fees that the members pay and solve problems like these instead of posting a thread and then complaining when people have ideas on how to solve the problems....... if the people on the boards saw progress with things such as betterl aec's, stricter penalties and more honorable playing you might actually have more people have join up........ just a suggestion along with all the others here........

I would just like to point out that the two people saying the thread had gone on long enough do not pay WAA fees. And the people that are paying members of the WAA, like Dogboy, Maple, Crow, and Ghostbear have provided a lot for this thread. They also called for this thread not to be closed.

[Mr. Crow]

I took a novel approach a couple of weeks ago at the wargame field. I was an asshole. It really helped that I was allready in a very bad mood, and comming off of starting this thread i was in no mood for crabcakes. Three times durring the day, when I shot someone or that I knew was hit, or saw one of my team that I knew was hit, I raised my hand, walked over to the individual and told them they (and I) were out. Now in these cases I am not necessarily accusing folks of intentionally not calling shots (even though 1 for sure was) I know we were all wearing thick clothing and feeling hits was not as easy, but that was not my concern.

Also keep in mind I called my self out more times that day than any I can remember.

[perculator]

I think that as the day goes on less and less shots get called. There seems to be alot of kills in the first 2 hours and then it seems as if the fire fights last 20 minutes without anyone getting hit.... INTERESTING

[RTO]

... Three times durring the day, when I shot someone or that I knew was hit, or saw one of my team that I knew was hit, I raised my hand, walked over to the individual and told them they (and I) were out. Now in these cases I am not necessarily accusing folks of intentionally not calling shots (even though 1 for sure was) I know we were all wearing thick clothing and feeling hits was not as easy, but that was not my concern.

Also keep in mind I called my self out more times that day than any I can remember.

thats why i saw you walking around a lot, now it all makes sense;)

[Guerilla Dan]

I would just like to point out that the two people saying the thread had gone on long enough do not pay WAA fees. And the people that are paying members of the WAA, like Dogboy, Maple, Crow, and Ghostbear have provided a lot for this thread. They also called for this thread not to be closed.

Yes, people that don't belong to the WAA have opinions of ignoramic calibur, and they deserve to be ignored. @_@

[Beasthunter33]

Yes, people that don't belong to the WAA have opinions of ignoramic calibur, and they deserve to be ignored. @_@


Wait a minute..... ;)

[Ianing]

Yes, people that don't belong to the WAA have opinions of ignoramic calibur, and they deserve to be ignored. @_@


I was just trying to point out that no WAA members were trying to close this thread and that WAA members are adding to this topic and trying to find ways to stop cheating. We were not just trying to fix it with a "little 5 minute prep talk". Yes non-members have also provided ideas and given insight into the matter.

[Agent J]

Yes, people that don't belong to the WAA have opinions of ignoramic calibur, and they deserve to be ignored. @_@

Is that an insult? cause if it is...you'll have to explain it to me.

[Downslide]

Not really an insult.

Guerilla Dan isn't a WAA member. He was making a funny. and the "@_@" is the pre-"little-yellow-smilies-pics" emoticon for this guy ---> :o

am I right Dan?

[Agent J]

Yeah I figured as much, besides I'm on the Internet, so I don't really care if my alter ego is insulted. OMFG LOLZ IM INVINCIBLE PWNED!

Anyway, don't cheat or do drugs. The idea of calling your team mates out is also a good thing. Is there some kind of official position we could have (not OC or anything, I mean within the player's teams) that would have the power just to call team mates out? And yes, I do realize that anyone should be able to do it, but I don't think any honor-motivated 15 year olds are going to be calling grown ups on their team out, if those grown ups don't notice they've been hit, or are intentionally cheating (no offense to grownups, I may be one someday myself)

[Doc]

You could just shoot them if your 100% sure they got hit and didn't call them self out. If they do get hit by you and they still don't call them self out it will help single out people who don't and cut back on the problem.