KWC GBB pistols any good? (plus, are WA worth it?)

[seppuku]

i was looking around at some (relatively) cheap GBB pistols, and i frequently run into KWC brand guns. does anyone have any experience with a KWC pistol? are they decent for about 60 bucks, or are they total crap? i was looking at versions of the 1911 (Caspian in particular) and the Sig P226. ultimately i would like a KSC/KWA M945, but i don't have the $100+ laying around to purchase it right now. :( (i don't really have the $60 to buy a KWC either, but i was just curious about their quality.)

p.s. are Western Arms pistols worth the $200+?

[Texx]

KWC guns are 50/50 on quality. Finding spare magazines or parts is extremely difficult. There are almost no aftermarket parts or accessories for them, save for the KWC Desert Eagle. They should be considered a somewhat disposble gun and I really wouldn't recommend spending more than $60-$80 on one. KWC guns are not really that bad, for the money, just don't expect a while lot from it.

I have owned the KWA M945 and the WA M92FS Perfect Version. The 945 is an excellent 1911 to own, and I would say it is far more reliable a gun than most stock WA guns. However, due to its "singlestack" configuration, you might instead look at the KJW Para or TM Hicapa (or its full metal counterpart) as a little better choice.

I know there will be a veritable "explenative" storm for me saying this, but a stock WA gun is more of a collectors piece than a skirmish weapon. It is nice looking, but isn't overly reliable (and somewhat fragile) at least when compared to what else is available. You could buy and upgrade two KJW or TM M9s for the price of one full metal upgraded WA M9.

If you are looking for an excellent looking gun, go with a WA. If you want a work horse that performs, get a KJW or TM. If you are looking for an 1911, though, there is really only a few reliable specimens from the other manufacturers and then there is WA's who 7/8 of their catalogs are 1911 and 1911 variants.

[seppuku]

thanks for the info Texx. it sounds like i'm better off saving for the more "sure thing" with the KSC. i actually do have a hi-capa already (which i really like, but kinda wish i knew there was going to be that Taiwanese all-metal version), and it will probably remain my primary sidearm on the field. but i like the trimmer frame on the single stacks, and despite their limited practicality, i find myself developing into a bit of a pistol hoore (if only i had the money to feed my desires :( ).

that said, i would also still like to (someday) get a Sig. does anyone have any experience with the KSC/KWA version? is the Marui P226 superior? will a Taiwanese company release an all-metal version of that too?

i'd also like a Walter P99, of which Maruzen sounds to make the best copy. but now i'm just sharing my Christmas list with everyone (PM me for address info ;) ), so i'll stop. :)

p.s. on an unrelated note, i occasionally see "explenative" in people's posts. i think the word is actually supposed to be "expletive (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=expletive)", yes?

[Eric_Ness]

I'm going to have to dis-agree with you there texx, I'd take a WA over any other gbb (talking stock here) in terms of reliability, accuracy, and blowback power. Using the recomended blue gas a WA infinity std. 5in. shoots faster and more consistently than my KWC using green. The looks are amazing, the build quality is miles ahead of the compition, and assuming you don't do foolish things to them they will last a long time. And by foolish I mean drop it in the sand and continue to fire, or using Green gas in a non-upgraded gun. Hands down, if you are looking for a gun that is fun to shoot and looks really nice to boot, you can't beat WA. If you want a cheaper gun, KWC is available, but I heartily advise against it, save up for a KSC, regardless of what people say, they aren't the same, KSC guns are much better made.

[SINN FEIN]

I'm going to have to dis-agree with you there texx, I'd take a WA over any other gbb (talking stock here) in terms of reliability, accuracy, and blowback power. Using the recomended blue gas a WA infinity std. 5in. shoots faster and more consistently than my KWC using green. The looks are amazing, the build quality is miles ahead of the compition, and assuming you don't do foolish things to them they will last a long time. And by foolish I mean drop it in the sand and continue to fire, or using Green gas in a non-upgraded gun. Hands down, if you are looking for a gun that is fun to shoot and looks really nice to boot, you can't beat WA.

In this section, you praise the WA, saying it is better in almost every aspect.

But here...


If you want a cheaper gun, KWC is available, but I heartily advise against it, save up for a KSC, regardless of what people say, they aren't the same, KSC guns are much better made.

You say that KSC guns are better made, and that you should save up for the KSC. This leaves me confused :s

[Josephthelord]

Sinn, i think he means that the KSC is superior to the KWC but is still inferior to the WA guns



p.s. on an unrelated note, i occasionally see "explenative" in people's posts. i think the word is actually supposed to be "expletive (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=expletive)", yes?

I believe the use of the word "explenative" started with a typo, and people found it to be funny, and began to use themselves. (Kind of like with the word "pwned" which is a misspelling of the word "owned") That's my guess, i don't know for sure. Sorry if this is off topic.

[Tank]

Here's my 2 cents.

The majority of the KWC gas guns I've seen/shot are not very good in terms of function and relibilty.
WA have the best reputation for quality, but they have their drawbacks. About 50% of WA guns have a fixed hop-up, they are NOT green gas compatible from the factory. So you buy this expensive GBB then you have to spend more money to upgrade it if you want to use green gas. Plus some WA mags are $60 each....No thank you
Also WA basically just makes 1911's. They also make a few Berrettas but they are quite problomatic. Most people I know that have WA guns don't actually skirmish with them because they're too expensive to risk loosing/breaking. Personally I don't see the point in haveig a gun you can play with.

KSC is probably the # 2 company. Good reliable guns, but also (most) are not green gas compatible.

KWA is basically the Taiwaneese version of KSC. KWA guns ARE green gas ready, most come with metal slides, and parts/magazines are compatible with KSC. KWA is cheaper than KSC, and only slightly less reliable.

TM makes some good gas guns as well. As with all Japaneese guns, they are not technically green gas ready, but most of their guns handle it just fine.
The new blowback system in the Hi-CAPA & P226 is VERY good. The Hi-CAPA & P226 are the best 2 guns TM makes. (The MK23 is the 3rd IMO) And 2 of the best shooting/reliable GBBs I've ever shot/owned, and the price is very reasonable.
For my money, if you want a 1911 style gun for skirmish use, go with the TM Hi-CAPA. It shoots as good (if not better) than any WA I've ever shot. the TM isn't green gas ready, but all you have to do is replace the piston o-ring (~$1) & it's good to go.

If you're looking for a Desert Eagle, the TM is the ONLY one that's worth a damn. (ALL the other D.E.'s I've seen are JUNK!)

Hope that helps.

[seppuku]

thanks for all the input everyone!


the TM isn't green gas ready, but all you have to do is replace the piston o-ring (~$1) & it's good to go.Tank, where can i get one of those o-rings, and how difficult is it to install (i haven't broke down my Hi-capa yet, and have no idea what it looks like inside). also, would i have to worry about the plastic slide breaking? and does the Marui P226 also need a different o-ring to handle green gas?

and speaking of the Hi-capa, has anyone used the Taiwanese all-metal PHX or Wei-E-Tec versions of that gun? how does it compare to the Marui?

no one has mentioned HFC yet. they also seem to be inexpensive, but should they be avoided?

[Tank]

I've got a few of the o-rings. They're pretty easy to replace if you know how to disassemble the gun. As far as the slide breaking...I know a bunch of people running green gas, one has put over 6000 rounds through his & no breakage. The P226 uses a slightly different piston assembley & has no o-ring but more of a "cup" type piston seal. I've been running green in that but I've only fired a few hundred rounds though it. So far no problems.

HFC guns are cheap. Some are crap, & some are pretty good. A few of HFC's guns are made for them by KJW, which are also cheap and decent guns.

The Taiwaneese metal clones of the Hi-CAPA are decent. They don't shoot as nice as the TM and the internals will wear out MUCH faster than TM's. The mags (& probley some other parts) are interchangable between the 2.

[seppuku]

KJW - that's another brand i was going to ask about...

but back to green gas: is there a significant benefit to using it in guns like the Hi-capa? it seems certain guns require a bit of investment in order to make them sturdy enough to handle green gas (e.g. new slides), and i was wondering if the gains were even worth it (although for $1, it seems silly not to make the upgrade w/ the hi-capa). from what i've seen in fps comparisons, it seems the added oomph of green gas is definitely a plus, but i was wondering what your guys' take is.

btw, i apologize for the barrage of questions, but i'm curious what people's opinions are around here, and hopefully others have similar questions to mine.

[Tank]

Well one of the bennefits of green gas over 134a (aside from increased fps) is that it expands faster than 134a. Which helps keep the gas preassure high enough to properly operate the action durring rapid fireing. It will also work at somewhat lower temps than 134a.

Then there's the fact that green is easier to find than 134a. Not that 134a is hard to find, but green gas is just more redily available.

[seppuku]

i hate to resurrect on old thread like this, but i'm still trying to decide which 1911 clone to get. now before the Colonel gets all mad at me for starting (or in this case continuing) another "which gun should i buy" thread ;), i'm actually throwing out a specific request to any Western Arms owners asking if they wouldn't mind bringing their prized pistol to a skirmish; i would be very grateful. i've become smitten with the idea of owning a WA, but i'd very much like to see one in person before shelling out the 200+ bones for a sidearm. there's already some good info in this thread (http://www.wiairsoft.com/forums/showthread.php?t=644&highlight=western+arms) and the thread i'm currently posting in, and if more people would like to share their experiences i wouldn't complain.

aside from the high price of admission, there's a couple other apprehensions i have. for one, WA mag prices are rediculously high ($50+). even with the newer 21 and 23 round "R-type" mags, i could buy almost 2 KSC M945 15 round mags for the same price. the other concern i have is for the durability of the guns when using green gas, as i've heard conflicting reports. some people have had no problems, while others have had cracked slides. if i'm going to spend that much on a gun, i'd really like it to shoot harder and faster than what HFC134 can provide.

so that's where i stand. i'd really like to get the WA Kimber MARSOC (http://www.wgcshop.com/pcart/shopper.php?itm=WA-PS-KMBA_cat_WA%20Handguns), but without actually handling it - or any WA - myself, i don't know if it's worth the extra money over the KSC M945 (http://www.wgcshop.com/pcart/shopper.php?itm=KSC-PS-M945JBK_cat_KSC%20Handguns) or something similar. i've owned a TM Hi-capa and overall it was really nice, but i want a single stack 1911 and Marui doesn't make one....yet. if i knew Marui would be releasing their 1911 soon, i'd probably just wait on it. who knows, maybe at the very least i should wait until spring since i probably won't be using gas before then anyway. in any case, if someone wouldn't mind bringing their WA to a skirmish sometime for me to examine, i would appreciate it.

[Vanac]

I have a KWA M945, Excellent pistol. Rather powerful.


Might be for sale in a few days.

[seppuku]

I have a KWA M945, Excellent pistol. Rather powerful.


Might be for sale in a few days.cool. i may be interesting in buying that pistol you might have for sale......in the meantime, does anyone own a Western Arms 1911 variant they wouldn't mind bringing to a skirmish to '"show off"?

[Jun Wen]

My friend has WA Para-Ordnance P14.45 Limited. With the way he coddles his guns, though, it's doubtful it will ever be taken out of its case outdoors.

[element365]

I've been using green gas in my hi-cappa with no problems whatsoever. The only problem with the plastic slide is that the slide release catch on the slide tends to wear down so that it sometimes doesn't stay back as well as it should.

[bear]

I run a KWA G23F, it shoots like a beast. The full auto feature is pretty much usless unless you want to waste ammo. Yet the gun itself, regaurdess of barrel length, makes pretty damn good range. I used to have a KJW uspTac, shot nice while it shot, the mags need constant care, and the valves need to be replaced all the time. I've used both a TM 226, and HI-capa, I would have to say they both function like a dream and either could be my next purchase.

[perculator]

WA all the WAY

[Timmay]

While WA is very good in overall build quality, sadly, the cheaper stock HighCapa 5.1 will outperform it in accuracy, range, and green gas ready performance. The hopup effect alone was enough for me to sell my WA's.

The only thing to prep a Capa for green, is the piston seal to be replaced-a 5 dollar part.

Most WA's(having owned some) might take green but wont survive it without upgrades. Out of what i owned, the Prokiller MK2 SV F5(5 inch) was the only green gas capable pistol, with a metal polymer slide similar to the KSC MK23 HW.

[BlitzedSquirrel]

If you're looking for a Desert Eagle, the TM is the ONLY one that's worth a damn. (ALL the other D.E.'s I've seen are JUNK!)


Tank,

Are there any modifications that need to be made to these so they take green gas other then the afore mentioned piston O-ring?

also could you suggest any other good upgrades to get for it?

I know this is a big friggin pistol but I like it.



Necessary? Is it necessary for me to drink my own urine?
No, but I do it anyway because it's sterile and I like the taste.

for the people that ask if it's necessary that i have this pistol. :]

[vhousetheSEAL]

personally i think hfc and kwc make the best pistols around. i have a deluxe sigma, it has a lil trouble with the slide coming off but it shoots so well, accurate and powerful.

[Maple]

personally i think hfc and kwc make the best pistols around. i have a deluxe sigma, it has a lil trouble with the slide coming off but it shoots so well, accurate and powerful.
Apparently you have never seen a good GBB pistols then. HFC and most KWC pistols are crap.

[NATHANIELJONESTHUGANGEL]

personally i think hfc and kwc make the best pistols around..


Ever hear of Western Arms or Tokyo Marui?